Let me ask you some serious questions because all this Z bashing is beneath you:

what do you think her chances are of winning this year's Classic?


I mean, seriously, at some level you must clearly realize that this a a very nice horse. We're at the point where there are very few good 10F horses -- actually, we were always at this point. So much so, that some are even starting to believe that Musket Man is a race horse. I know you can't like RA in the Classic, so who does Z really have to beat in it? Anyone other than Blame?

It seems to me that her connections maybe understand some of this as well. They want to go into the biggest race of the year undefeated. You, and others, want her to campaign like Forego.

What does any of this have to do with calling bullcrap on the Z camp comments? You telling me a guy with hardly any horses can't afford to travel with the greatest horse to ever step foot on the planet for a month?

We don't want her to campaign like Forego. Since when did 5 nothing races and the BC Classic become a good schedule?

This is a DIFFERENT era. Things are done differently. Once upon a time there was a distinction between sprinters and routers. It actually took some skill to work a horse up to a route race. Yet, in Southern CAL, horses regularly stretch out, after even a single sprint, and come from off the pace to beat closing routers. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Sadler sent Twisted Candy to the ARC, without the benefit of another race, and had him win there. :rolleyes: I understand some of this is breeding but come on.

Then you have the case with Lake (and others) where his routers are able to outrun sprinters sprinting, on a regular basis. This with no workouts published. And so on.

And, your point of focus for the past year or so has been the way this horse has been campaigned? Was there ever a case where you could actually have made a score with this horse? (Other than last year's BC, possibly).

You think she can win the Classic?

Why should I answer when you made no attempt whatsoever to address my question about the BS from the Z camp? I honestly don't even know where you are going with the rest of it.

Can she win the Classic? Sure, she could, but I don't think she will. I don't think she is near the same horse on dirt.

Yes she can, but I don't think it really matters if she is as good on dirt as synthetic. This time she will face good dirt horses on dirt, not turf and dirt horses on Pro-Ride. The question will not be which surface she prefers, but is she really good enough to beat the best on a level playing field. That's point I beat my head against the wall trying to get some of you to understand. I'm of the opinion that she won't good enough to do so, but in one race scenario, I don't rule it out. If she faces the field that ran in the Whitney plus a few more, I'm betting against her doing anything more than sucking up for a minor share. Something like a 6-1 shot vs that group.

How can I address your question when I don't own the horse? Tell you this much, if I agreed to go to OP on the condition that RA would be there, and she punked out after my 2nd stringer beat her, I certainly wouldn't be open to ACCOMMODATING her with a rematch -- especially one that entailed shipping cross country for. As for the taking on the males thing: what exactly does she gain by beating that sad bunch out there? Would they give her HOTY if she won a G1 for males?

If you don't think she can win the Classic, then bet against her, make a score, and have something to write about.

I don't get the obsession with this horse.

I'm not sure how much is about accommodating Rachel vs what Shirreffs said recently about not wanting to leave his barn for weeks at a time like he might feel he'd have to in order to do his best training job for Zenyatta. He was more interested in the Beldame last year, even though the BC was at Santa Anita while NY had detention barns, and I'm guessing it was because he could come right back to his home base. That was still a form of accommodation. The Apple Blossom was less so because she'd gone there before with no plan to face Rachel and won.

I'd argue Jackson was the one accommodating Oaklawn with the rushed return to the races for Rachel. He didn't duck Zenyatta as much as he decided (in a rare moment of logic) that he screwed up once, and why do it again? Didn't stop them from trying the figure 8 bit again, but as mistakes go, it's far better to make that one than throwing an ill-prepared RA to the wolves when Zenyatta wasn't hanging in a barn for 5 months doing nothing. She was in training that whole time. It's how we got tipped off she might not be retiring.

I just heard about RA's latest work. Sounds like she might be getting in better gear. I think she's still been kept in some state of mothball storage even up to the Lady's Secret. If it results in a Classic win, more power to'em, but then you gotta say the same to Shirreffs and the Mosses right? If we're being fair. Still, bloody frustrating.

good question, but shirreffs is the one you need to ask. he's the one who doesn't want to leave his other horses behind. i have no idea how many that might be.

It probably has no meaning whatsoever to anything, but Ginger Punch had a 7 race string where she won the BC Distaff, Sunshine Millions Distaff, Louisville Stakes, Ogden Phipps, Go For Wand, and Personal Ensign. Her one loss in that skein was by 8 lengths to Zenyatta on dirt. So she won a grade 2 and 3 grade 1s in succession after that 8 length loss to Zenyatta. But for a very lucky photo in the Personal Ensign by Ginger Punch, two horses Zenyatta beat by over 8 lengths in the Apple Blossom would have come back to win G1 races on dirt in the same year actually, but alas, ginger punch got the photo over Lemon Drop Mom.

Time and margins, time and margins. I'm pretty sure 6 horses in the Goodwood ran faster than Zenyatta did in the Lady's Secret on the same day last year. Somehow on BC day all those slow times Zenyatta ran last year didn't translate. These threads are unusual to say the least. It is what it is. They chose to duplicate what they did last year after stating they wouldn't. I have no idea why. But at some point we simply have to accept life as it is. Oh well. They chose a one race campaign last year and it worked (other than not getting HOY). They are choosing the same thing this year. I have no clue why they can't even contest the Hollywood Gold Cup...she certainly could have beaten Awesome Gem and Rail Trip like rented mules in that race, but they just don't want to push it. It's just part of the pure joy that the BC has created in the sport. One race catch all this year is all it is, and that is what the Zenyatta connections chose to do. 10 to 20 race campaigns by star horses will never happen again...ever.