I heart West Side Bernie, distance-limited pedigree and all.

Fair point Andy. Rain and Bird may absolutely be on a par level wise. But at least if he's a mediocrity, we know Atomic Rain wants dirt and appears best suited or competitive on it. Mine That Bird seems like a mediocrity on synthetics with no promise of dirt improvement.

This all leads back to the question of how to ensure the best field for this one particular, and overblown, race.

That makes sense. I guess the better argument, or more relevent argument, is whether or not the field size should be limited to 14.

And the answer to that would be no.

Glad we settled this.

the whole thread is mute.....since when are connections not trying to get in if the horse is healthy? for alot of these people its a once in a lifetime deal called derby fever. usually 14 or 15 have no shot but are entered, what makes this year any different?:rolleyes:

It would be tough business-wise to make a move like that...

In my opinion, one of the best Derby's ever was '97 with Silver Charm, when they only had to use one gate.

Ie...Scott Speed, Joe Nemechek, Mike Bliss of the Nascar World...somehow they make the field everyrace and shockingly enough they crash, cause a crash or they have engine trouble and finish near the back of the field. Or even the Tampa Bay Rays, how many people gave them a shot last year??
I will never fault anyone for running in the Derby, I would not want to keep asking myself "what if".
Famous quote..."It is better to have tried and failed, then to have never even tried at all"

It's a complicated discussion, but it certainly seems especially relevent this year, in light of Churchill claiming their racetrack is certified as " safe " by the NTRA. While I am sure their intentions are noble, and they have done whatever is possible to ensure a safe surface, the question of whether or not a race is " safe " with 20 horses thundering around that oval seems applicable this year.

It's a long debate, and I am sure there are arguments for both sides, but IMO a stronger argument can be made for reducing the field size. All these " these horses ( it's really people in this case ) have earned a right to run " arguments don't hold water for me. I realize they run 20 plus horse fields overseas....but not on racetracks like Churchill Down's dirt course.

Never mind that Mine That Bird's two highest Beyer figures came on regular dirt in his last two starts.

Except when they are named "Mine That Bird", apparently.

The best horse B L Woolley Jr. has ever trained ...

Uh oh. My pedagogical sense is tingling. Fighting it, fighting it,......Nope, can't.

The word you want is 'moot' (rhymes with 'loot'), which is not even pronounced the same way as 'mute' (unable or unwilling to speak). The original meaning was an assembly for discussion, as in the Entmoot in Lord of the Rings. From there it became any discussion, then a discussion of fictitious causes by way of practice, and nowadays is used to mean something already settled so that any discussion is for practice only.

Your word for the day: moot

Pedigree Ann, you missed "intensive purposes" at the bottom of page one.;)

When I was at CDI, I got an email from a girl in Marketing where she called something a "mute point." I made every attempt to never speak with her again. DERBY BARBIE!!

It might be noted that Mine That Bird received the Sovereign Award as champion 2yo colt in Canada. All of his graded earnings were from winning a G3 as a 2yo.

Hey, he finished 3/4 length ahead of G2 Lexington winner Advice at Sunland. If Advice enters, why not Mine That Bird?:rolleyes:

Giacomo at least had run four straight Beyers of 93 or better in his four starts coming into the Derby. An avg of 96 over those four races.

No horse in this years Kentucky Derby field comes in off of 4 straight Beyers in the 90's or better.

Even if people didn't believe his form was made up of one better than looked race after another - and didn't think he was likely to improve form because of pace, distance, and trainer - he still had to be respected some for his consistancy.

Musket Man is very upset that you forgot about him.

NT

He does edge in ... I was looking at pool 3 pp's ... he had a 92-91-90 and the Illi Derby race wasn't showing.

Quality Road comes within a point of making it as well.

This really hurts me too, as I had narrowed the Derby Super down to a Trifecta with the assumption that Terrain would automatically finish fourth, which he always does regardless of the competition.

Back to the drawing board.

Once you proclaimed that I was so convinced that I gave BBB $12 so that he could hit me a $6,840 Pick 4. I would then use that $6,840 to play ALL-ALL-ALL-Terrain. Al Stall is a killjoy.

NT

One other would have passed that test had he had not gotten hurt.