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Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

You're the dumbest b.itch on the internet. I'll take anything negative you say as a compliment.

If only your opinion mattered to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

I can't believe you actually believe one-sixth of the economy and the larges

BTW, not everybody is ELIGIBLE for the government plan (under both current House bill provisions). Private insurance isn't going anywhere.

Who will be insured are the currently uninsured. That's estimated to be 36 million out of 46 million uninsured, out of 330 billion in our country. Those whose big private insurance companies have dumped them because they made a claim (yes, that happens all the time, it's how insurance companies make money - by not paying claims). Young people that are currently uninsured will be encouraged to be insured and brought into the pools (decreasing costs for everyone). YOU will not be prevented from getting insurance because you have a pre-existing condition (happens all the time). YOU won't have to worry about losing your health insurance if you change jobs (happens all the time, few can afford COBRA)

Who is going to pay for this then? We are just going to cover all the people that currently aren't insured with a government program and the health insurance costs are going to go down. I am not sure where you live, but in my book that is never never land.

Half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by people bankrupted due to paying for medical bills - and the majority of these people are insured by private insurance companies. That will end. That is great for the economy.

Great for the economy? Where is the $ coming from to pay for this?

Your insurance plan has a list of doctors in their plan, and a list of hospitals (providers) in their plan, and the insurance company determines what is paid out for what conditions.

They do now all the time. It's called "Medicare".

What "government plan" are you talking about? There is no single payer (the government paying for everything) in any of the reform bills. There is no provision for someone from the government to get involved in your health care.

If you believe what the government is telling you and that they have no hidden agenda or direction where they are going to take this then you are correct, but you aren't really that naive are you?

??? The government isn't going to be "in charge of healthcare"? What provisions in the house bills or senate bill are you specifically are you talking about?

BTW, the government does very well, providing excellent comprehensive treatment at very lost cost (less than 5% of Medicare/Medicade budget goes to administrative costs) to Medicare, Medicad and Veterans right now.

Really? Have you dealt with Medicare before? They do not cover a lot of things and if you have major medical problems you should have supplemental coverage to cover what medicare doesn't cover.

If they can't compete with the private businesses in something so simple what makes you think they can do so with healthcare?[/quote]

The Post Office is far from the disaster you say it is. They compete very well. You put a stamp on a letter, they pick it up, and in 3-7 days it's exactly where you wrote on the envelope it should go.[/quote]

Really? Do you know how large the deficit for the post office is? If it where a private business they would have filed bankruptcy years ago. The deficit is in the billions. Why do you think they are talking about mail going to 5 days a week? Why do they contract their priority mail packages with Fedex and UPS? I am sure it is because they are so efficient and cost effective at providing their services

"Medicaid is an insurance company"

Jesustapdancingchrist. You are an epic tool. You're like John Henry's hammer if it had a missing chromosome. Just shut the everliving f.uck up.

Here is an article on the post office

http://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/ca6675207.html

Yeah the post office is in great shape...

So is Medicare and the VA, wiphan.

Why bother with this dumb c.unt?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

"Medicaid is an insurance company"

Jesustapdancingchrist. You are an epic tool. You're like John Henry's hammer if it had a missing chromosome. Just shut the everliving f.uck up.

Didn't take your meds today, huh?

Actually, what I said was, "Medicaid is just another health insurance company, that happens to be the government".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

The hot new thing now for many doctor practices in smaller towns (like a general or internal medicine practice) is to stop taking insurance, and charge cash for everything (exams, usual lab work, etc). It costs everybody less. The patients pay a very reasonable amount for the cost of the office visit, labwork, etc. (rather than their copay), as the cost doesn't have to be inflated to pay for messing with insurance companies. Quick and neat, cheaper for everyone. They patients only use their insurance if they get admitted to hospital, etc.

They do haircuts as well? Cheaper for people with no insurance I will concede but how ho-dunk are these people to pay for covered proceedures to avoid the co-pay? Or is it " Mr. Smith we did some blood work and had to send it to the lab so that'll be $24.95. You saved a nickle off your co-pay."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

"Medicaid is an insurance company"

Jesustapdancingchrist. You are an epic tool. You're like John Henry's hammer if it had a missing chromosome. Just shut the everliving f.uck up.

That was funnnnny :tro: :tro:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Didn't take your meds today, huh?

Actually, what I said was, "Medicaid is just another health insurance company, that happens to be the government".

Yes I took my meds and it's obvious to me your lobotomy suffered a few permanent setbacks.

Quote:

Who is going to pay for this then? We are just going to cover all the people that currently aren't insured with a government program and the health insurance costs are going to go down. I am not sure where you live, but in my book that is never never land.

I can't believe the GOP is not hammering on this. 2/3 is supposed to come from cuts in current Medicare misspending, 1/3 from the decreased tax deductions on those making over 250K a year.

My biggest question is that if that much stuff can be cleaned up from Medicare, why hasn't it been done already? Will it be done anyway independent of the health bill? How can one be sure that much can be realized? I want to see the details on this.

There are also provisions for people who are in the government plan to pay for their insurance, dependent upon their income, etc. It's not supposed to replace private insurance for the insured, it's suppose to cover the uninsured much like Medicare does now.

Everyone benefits costwise from that because now we pay (in our ER bills, our health insurance bills, our premiums, etc) for the 15% uninsured. Somebody has to pay for it, those costs are built into and spread around the entire healthcare industry.

What everyone benefits from immediately is the reforms to laws covering private insurance companies - no more dumping clients for no reason, no excluding grandpa from insurance because he retired and lost his company insurance and now wants to buy some but you won't cover him because he's had heart trouble, etc.

Quote:

Half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by people bankrupted due to paying for medical bills - and the majority of these people are insured by private insurance companies. That will end. That is great for the economy.

Great for the economy? Where is the $ coming from to pay for this?

The insurance companies that are insuring those people now. They will no longer be able to cap your yearly or lifetime benefits and stop paying, nor cap benefits for one condition and stop paying, nor kick you off your policy because you developed cancer, etc.

Quote:

If you believe what the government is telling you and that they have no hidden agenda or direction where they are going to take this then you are correct, but you aren't really that naive are you?

Apparently, yes, I am that naive ;) No, I don't feel this is all part of a secret superplot to take over all my healthcare and control my life. We still have our three divisions of government, right? Executive, Legislative, Judicial? And we change off our Congressmen and Senators regularly, right, at our pleasure? BTW, no, I do not support single payer.

Quote:

Really? Have you dealt with Medicare before? They do not cover a lot of things and if you have major medical problems you should have supplemental coverage to cover what medicare doesn't cover.

My regular private insurance doesn't cover alot of things. They cover this injection, but not that. They cover this procedure, but not that. They only cover generic drugs, although some drugs are better if not generic. They flat-out refuse to pay for some stuff. They only pay for XX days in hospital for XX condition, no matter what I may need. They tell me that after XXX dollars for one condition, they will pay no more and I'm on my own.

I'm in deep trouble, with private insurance, if I get a bad cancer than needs repeat treatments, long care, etc. They don't cover alot of preventive care - colonoscopies, mammograms, routine bloodwork, dermatologists, etc - that would decrease their costs if I didn't get those diseases, or caught them early.

Read the horror stories in the news associated with this - about the young girl who needed a liver transplant to live, her insurance company refused, her parents couldn't afford it, she died.

Private insurance is no model for excellence - they are a virtually unregulated industry, that can do whatever they want to the people who pay them monthly premiums.

I think most Medicare people have supplemental insurance, too, because they are usually older retired people on fixed incomes (part of which is that terrible socialist government controlled Social Security) and they don't want to risk losing what pension they have left.

Medicare has saved millions of lives. Think of all the people that would have no health insurance at all if they didn't have Medicare. Before Medicare - old people who couldn't afford it just got sick, were not treated, and died. I find that an appalling thing to happen in the richest, free-est country in the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellinger63

They do haircuts as well? Cheaper for people with no insurance I will concede but how ho-dunk are these people to pay for covered proceedures to avoid the co-pay? Or is it " Mr. Smith we did some blood work and had to send it to the lab so that'll be $24.95. You saved a nickle off your co-pay."

No, cheaper for those with insurance, too, as the office doesn't have to pay three extra people to work just to file insurance claims. Thus the doctors office doesn't have to build that charge into their office call charge, etc. They use their insurance still for catastrophic, hospitalization, etc. Don't forget that all that paperwork filing costs money, from the doctor to the insurance company - eliminate that, and you eliminate a huge amount of healthcare costs. You do not HAVE to file an insurance claim, just because you are covered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

So an office visit with lab work IS cheaper than their co-pay? Really? Do these ho-dunks take their, still under warranty, vehicles to the local mechanic cause he charges less than the dealer will charge the manufacturer as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Did you miss my story? My private, ultra-good bells-and-whistles Humana plan (for which I paid over $400 a month for, privately, as I am self-employed) approved and qualified me to have a knee replacement (both the doctors office and the hospital got approval, in writing, that the insurance company would pay, which is usual for any hospital admittance) - then a few months later, they decided they were not paying.

They gave me two choices: I could sign off and agree they wouldn't pay for what they already agreed to, and what was covered under my plan; or, if I didn't agree, the blackmail to that was they would cancel my entire policy from the beginning, and refund all my premiums minus what they paid out already on other conditions.

This is entirely legal for you to sign a contract and your insurance company to be able to renege at any time, with you having no recourse. Read your insurance contract. The Kentucky Insurance Commission said, "Nothing we can do".

I am currently sueing them. I will be lucky to get half of it paid, and it will take years. Insurance companies take the least expensive road.

The above is what private insurance companies do to keep profitable. When you have a large claim, they will try anything to put the policy in recission.

And the Healthcare reform act will END the above practice.

Shocking ... just SHOCKING

Thought we had "the best health care system in the world" cuz it's private?????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Shocking ... just SHOCKING

Thought we had "the best health care system in the world" cuz it's private?????

I thought Canada did?

http://www.vancouversun.com/story_pr...878506&sponsor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Yes I took my meds and it's obvious to me your lobotomy suffered a few permanent setbacks.

:tro: :tro:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I thought Canada did?

http://www.vancouversun.com/story_pr...878506&sponsor

Not according to this one, dellinger:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Cont...can-Healt.aspx

Canada came in fifth ... and the U.S. in sixth ... out of six countries............................

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellinger63

No, didn't mean that. I said that "healthcare" for routine stuff becomes cheaper in this type of practice setup. If the doc wants a CBC-chemistry, it may be $48 this way (drawn in-house, sent out to lab, results faxed back to doc), but $88 if you drive to the hospital lab, have the blood drawn, they run it, they send results to doctor - and the hospital has to process your insurance paperwork to get reimbursement).

Not using insurance companies for the routine stuff, taking that out of the equation, saves alot of money all throughout the system. You are eliminating all the markup necessitated by an insurance company and the requisite paperwork pushers being in the middle of it all.

Many doctors nowadays give noticable discounts to patients that are willing to pay $120 cash for an office visit and followup labwork; than to pay the $30 co-pay and process that through an insurance company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Shocking ... just SHOCKING

Thought we had "the best health care system in the world" cuz it's private?????

Um ... we do not have the "best healthcare in the world" by anyone's public ranking. We do have the "most expensive" healthcare in the world.

Quote:

World Health Org ranked us 37th (France and Italy first)

Commonwealth Fund May 2009 ranked the United States last or next-to-last compared with five other nations — Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and the United Kingdom — on most measures of performance, including quality of care and access to it.

Insurance coverage: All other major industrialized nations provide universal health coverage, and most of them have comprehensive benefit packages with no cost-sharing by the patients. The United States, to its shame, has some 45 million people without health insurance and many more millions who have poor coverage.

Access. Citizens abroad often face long waits before they can get to see a specialist or undergo elective surgery. Americans typically get prompter attention, although Germany does better. The real barriers here are the costs facing low-income people without insurance or with skimpy coverage.

But even Americans with above-average incomes find it more difficult than their counterparts abroad to get care on nights or weekends without going to an emergency room, and many report having to wait six days or more for an appointment with their own doctors.

Fairness. The United States ranks dead last on almost all measures of equity because we have the greatest disparity in the quality of care given to richer and poorer citizens. Americans with below-average incomes are much less likely than their counterparts in other industrialized nations to see a doctor when sick, to fill prescriptions or to get needed tests and follow-up care.

Healthy lives. We have known for years that America has a high infant mortality rate, so it is no surprise that we rank last among 23 nations by that yardstick. But we rank near the bottom in healthy life expectancy at age 60, and 15th among 19 countries in deaths from a wide range of illnesses that would not have been fatal if treated with timely and effective care. The good news is that we have done a better job than other industrialized nations in reducing smoking. The bad news is that our obesity epidemic is the worst in the world.

Quality. In a comparison with five other countries, the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States first in providing the “right care” for a given condition as defined by standard clinical guidelines and gave it especially high marks for preventive care, like Pap smears and mammograms to detect early-stage cancers, and blood tests and cholesterol checks for hypertensive patients. But we scored poorly in coordinating the care of chronically ill patients, in protecting the safety of patients, and in meeting their needs and preferences, which drove our overall quality rating down to last place. American doctors and hospitals kill patients through surgical and medical mistakes more often than their counterparts in other industrialized nations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Many doctors nowadays give noticable discounts to patients that are willing to pay $120 cash for an office visit and followup labwork; than to pay the $30 co-pay and process that through an insurance company.

So the patient pays $120 out of pocket to save themself the $30 dollar co-pay?

And to think I gave them the benefit of the doubt and called them ho-dunk instead of just plain assinine.

just saw this about aarp and it's members:

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/...ap6787521.html