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-   -   Jerry Brown's letter to TDN on HOY discussion (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32796)

dellinger63 11-15-2009 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwspencer
It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

Those who believe that Rachel deserves the award based on her achievements on the track have trotted out statistic after statistic, talking only about her performances on the track THIS YEAR.

Jackson is an a$shole and Asmussen is a cheater! !
That closes the case for me. And Brian you of all people know humans vote more on emotion than anything else, it's in our nature.

BC was open to Rachel and Jax/Asm chose not to go because of the poly (still shedding Curlin tears) TOUGH. IMO she missed the final exam by choice and gets a zero. Factor a zero into their beyers and TG's and she loses. Besides by giving Zen HOY it forces Jackson into an emotional state where it would be more likely to return next year to avenge a perceived wrong as opposed to doing it for the fans.

johnjaydog95 11-15-2009 09:35 AM
So, why even have the rest of the season (besides the Triple Crown)? Run in the Breeder's Cup, win, HOTY. That'll do a lot for the fans.

Stickhorse 11-15-2009 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwspencer
I don't get it. So when people make a flimsy case for Zenyatta and are told that they don't have a leg to stand on thanks to said flimsy case they just made, then they get emotional and change the subject, therefore making their emotion somehow reasonable? I don't follow.

And one of the big things that attracts you to horse racing is a horse's inability to speak? Guess there's a first time for hearing everything.
:zz: :zz:

Sorry I guess I should have said I'm glad only one side has emotional arguments.;)

MaTH716 11-15-2009 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63
That closes the case for me. And Brian you of all people know humans vote more on emotion than anything else, it's in our nature.

BC was open to Rachel and Jax/Asm chose not to go because of the poly (still shedding Curlin tears) TOUGH. IMO she missed the final exam by choice and gets a zero. Factor a zero into their beyers and TG's and she loses. Besides by giving Zen HOY it forces Jackson into an emotional state where it would be more likely to return next year to avenge a perceived wrong as opposed to doing it for the fans.
I don't understand why the Rachel camp is the only one getting penalized/scrutinized for not going to the BC (and a surface that they did not want to run on). Moss had every opportunity to ship away from California and race. Maybe if he decided to ship, his case for the horse of the year would be a bit better today reguardless if they beat Rachel or not.

RolloTomasi 11-15-2009 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc525
While most residing in the West will shout "bias!" from the rooftops, one needs only to look at the poll being conducted by the NY Times concerning HOY.

As it stands now, Rachel is in the lead over Zenyatta 69% to 31%. The poll up to this point has accumulated a total of 2,707 votes.
Hah! Nice try.

You're telling me I'm supposed to take your statistics at face value when the poll was conducted by the NEW YORK Times!?!

!BIAS!

Let's see what the Pasadena Star has to say about all this.

johnjaydog95 11-15-2009 09:51 AM
I ran into a couple of posters on a non-racing focused horse sports board who insisted that Zenyatta deserves HOTY because Rachel's races were "cherry-picked" by Jackson/Asmussen to be ones that Rachel "could win."

When I pointed out that there were two things wrong with that argument, they went nutty on me and started talked about how hard the BCC made them cry.

Danzig 11-15-2009 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwspencer
It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

Those who believe that Rachel deserves the award based on her achievements on the track have trotted out statistic after statistic, talking only about her performances on the track THIS YEAR.

Those who believe Zenyatta deserve it make some flimsy case for her winning it based on the actual racing, mentioning Life Is Sweet running behind her a couple times, mentioning the Grade I Breeders' Cup (Turf) Classic, and then move on to things that have nothing to do at all with racetrack accomplishments. Look at how many people were cheering for her at Santa Anita -- you should have heard it! Look at the press she got! She brought tears to my eyes! She's never lost, even including last year, so she is overdue for a HOY! Mike Smith said she only hit third gear! Jackson is an a$shole and Asmussen is a cheater! If only they had run once past Labor Day, we wouldn't even be having this discussion! Sherriffs threw his hat in the crowd! Didju see that?! Didju see that -- he is so nice and was having so much fun, I cried! Look at how happy I am, it would be a black eye if we didn't give her HOY!

:D :tro:

miraja2 11-15-2009 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTH716
I don't understand why the Rachel camp is the only one getting penalized/scrutinized for not going to the BC (and a surface that they did not want to run on). Moss had every opportunity to ship away from California and race. Maybe if he decided to ship, his case for the horse of the year would be a bit better today reguardless if they beat Rachel or not.
The reason is because some people have elevated the Breeders' Cup to an absolutely absurd status. These people seem to believe that the BCC counts for more than the Oaks, Preakness, Haskell, and Woodward put together simply because somebody put the idiotic title "World Championships" after one particular weekend of racing. It is a complete farce.

freddymo 11-15-2009 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63
That closes the case for me. And Brian you of all people know humans vote more on emotion than anything else, it's in our nature.

BC was open to Rachel and Jax/Asm chose not to go because of the poly (still shedding Curlin tears) TOUGH. IMO she missed the final exam by choice and gets a zero. Factor a zero into their beyers and TG's and she loses. Besides by giving Zen HOY it forces Jackson into an emotional state where it would be more likely to return next year to avenge a perceived wrong as opposed to doing it for the fans.

"Final exam".. This is so ridiculous. I am not suggesting you are ridiculous just your characterization of the BC Classic as an exam. What was the "Final Exam" before the BC Cup? So now all stake races including G1's have been reduced to homework assignments and quizzes? While I enjoy the BC Cup, this philosopy that the BC is a "final Exam" has caused racing immeasurable harm.

Yo Tim Ice you won the Travers but the Joke is on you as its just a Quiz..Wooley HAHA its just the Deby.. Come on man think this thru!

miraja2 11-15-2009 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
"Final exam".. This is so ridiculous. I am not suggesting you are ridiculous just your characterization of the BC Classic as an exam. What was the "Final Exam" before the BC Cup? So now all stake races including G1's have been reduced to homework assignments and quizzes? While I enjoy the BC Cup, this philosopy that the BC is a "final Exam" has caused racing immeasurable harm.

Yo Tim Ice you won the Travers but the Joke is on you as its just a Quiz..Wooley HAHA its just the Deby.. Come on man think this thru!
:tro:

brianwspencer 11-15-2009 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
"Final exam".. This is so ridiculous. I am not suggesting you are ridiculous just your characterization of the BC Classic as an exam. What was the "Final Exam" before the BC Cup? So now all stake races including G1's have been reduced to homework assignments and quizzes? While I enjoy the BC Cup, this philosopy that the BC is a "final Exam" has caused racing immeasurable harm.

Yo Tim Ice you won the Travers but the Joke is on you as its just a Quiz..Wooley HAHA its just the Deby.. Come on man think this thru!
This is begging for a picture of Kanye interrupting Zenyatta.

dellinger63 11-15-2009 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
"Final exam".. This is so ridiculous. I am not suggesting you are ridiculous just your characterization of the BC Classic as an exam. What was the "Final Exam" before the BC Cup? So now all stake races including G1's have been reduced to homework assignments and quizzes? While I enjoy the BC Cup, this philosopy that the BC is a "final Exam" has caused racing immeasurable harm.

Yo Tim Ice you won the Travers but the Joke is on you as its just a Quiz..Wooley HAHA its just the Deby.. Come on man think this thru!
my anti-Jackson bias won't allow it. I don't believe Rachel is coming back next year. She'll have some 'minor' mysterious setback and that will be it. Should Zen win HOY ole Jess will be emotionally forced to bring back Rachel and try and dominate.That I want to see. It's a win-win situation IMO

Danzig 11-15-2009 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63
my anti-Jackson bias won't allow it. I don't believe Rachel is coming back next year. She'll have some 'minor' mysterious setback and that will be it. Should Zen win HOY ole Jess will be emotionally forced to bring back Rachel and try and dominate.That I want to see. It's a win-win situation IMO

your reasoning becomes more absurd with each post. sorry, gotta disagree with you in this case.

Danzig 11-15-2009 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miraja2
The reason is because some people have elevated the Breeders' Cup to an absolutely absurd status. These people seem to believe that the BCC counts for more than the Oaks, Preakness, Haskell, and Woodward put together simply because somebody put the idiotic title "World Championships" after one particular weekend of racing. It is a complete farce.

:tro: :tro:

freddymo 11-15-2009 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwspencer
This is begging for a picture of Kanye interrupting Zenyatta.
That is a job for Mr Pants

freddymo 11-15-2009 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63
my anti-Jackson bias won't allow it. I don't believe Rachel is coming back next year. She'll have some 'minor' mysterious setback and that will be it. Should Zen win HOY ole Jess will be emotionally forced to bring back Rachel and try and dominate.That I want to see. It's a win-win situation IMO
Who dislikes jacksons ways more then Cannon Shell? Rachel was made by G-d and Wiggins, mostly g-d. She would have been great with virtually any qualified horseman. Same with Zenyatta. While I don't discount superior horsemanship I fugure the great ones like Zenyatta and Rachel don't need anything but opportunity.

Coach Pants 11-15-2009 10:39 AM
It would be great if both sides were given pistols and had a massive shootout resulting in no survivors. That is the most sensible way for me to be spared from these feminine threads.

miraja2 11-15-2009 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Rachel was made by G-d and Wiggins, mostly g-d.
Don't Medaglia Doro and Lotta Kim actually deserve some credit?

Smooth Operator 11-15-2009 11:29 AM
Wonder why Jerry forgot to mention the fact that the eastern filly wouldn't stand a chance of holding off that Z-Train in a classic 10f contest at Churchill...

Danzig 11-15-2009 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Operator
Wonder why Jerry forgot to mention the fact that the eastern filly wouldn't stand a chance of holding off that Z-Train in a classic 10f contest at Churchill...

wonder why imaginary races would have any bearing...


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