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-   -   3/7 (SA): SA H. (Gr. I); Kilroe (Gr. I); SA Oaks (Gr. I); Honest Lady (L) (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28211)

NTamm1215 03-07-2009 08:45 AM

The first time I looked at the Big Cap, I thought wow, there's no speed and this field is largely horrendous. Rail Trip would be 8/5.

NT

Bobby Fischer 03-07-2009 11:01 AM

nice blog piece that has video Cowboy Cal , Monba, and Blue Exit schooling in the paddock and walking ring
http://maryforney.blogspot.com/

Pedigree Ann 03-07-2009 12:26 PM

This year's 3yos have yet to determine if they are decent or not; last year's have proven to be not really bad but lacklustre, with very few who have been able to run well against their elders of similar credentials (graded wins). That is what some forget about the Strub series - it is for 4yos only. It was supposed to be the last chance to prove they were Derby type horses, but then management shortened the Strub to 9f and made the whole thing irrelevant. Cowboy Cal is the only one of the 2005 generation that has beaten older stakes horses this winter, and he was life-and-death to hold on at 1 1/16; and he picks up 3 lbs. today.

eajinabi 03-07-2009 02:40 PM

Go Court Vision!!

If he wins he will be a graded stakes winner on all surfaces.

The Bet:

$100 WP Court Vision

cakes44 03-07-2009 04:31 PM

Zambezi Sun

brockguy 03-07-2009 04:50 PM

am i missing something with the support for Zambezi Sun. He has just been the most frustrating horse over the past 2 years - even more so than Champs Elysees.

ArlJim78 03-07-2009 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy
am i missing something with the support for Zambezi Sun. He has just been the most frustrating horse over the past 2 years - even more so than Champs Elysees.

i don't get it either. just watch the replay of his last race.

Danzig 03-07-2009 05:12 PM

i don't get ZS either. gotta think einstein is the class of the field.

brockguy 03-07-2009 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
i don't get it either. just watch the replay of his last race.

I feel if I use the "I wouldnt back him with counterfeit" line, it'll come back to bite me..

Matto Mondo for me with Champs and Dansant to follow him home. Dansant isnt actually that bad - ignore his last run and he has a strong enough profile (ratings wise) and should be very much at home on the surface which cant be said for the rest!

Merlinsky 03-07-2009 05:18 PM

I gotta say, I'm rooting for Stardom Bound and all but Miss Silver Brook is an elegant lady in that paddock. I mean she sure looks lovely on the video feed.

pgardn 03-07-2009 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
i don't get ZS either. gotta think einstein is the class of the field.

I agree.
I kinda dont get it.

Maybe just not knowing what he will do on synth.
His work on the stuff was not impressive, but what exactly
were they hoping to get out of it... dont know.
He has run well on on grass and dirt so.... what is the deal?

Danzig 03-07-2009 05:24 PM

i thought they said he seemed to like it ok? guess we'll see.

Danzig 03-07-2009 05:25 PM

going with hooh why for the upset this afternoon...

Danzig 03-07-2009 05:29 PM

goodness, what a finish

pgardn 03-07-2009 05:34 PM

Mike Smith trying to deal out some coronaries.

Danzig 03-07-2009 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
Mike Smith trying to deal out some coronaries.

i'm thinking stardom bound doesn't enjoy the luxury of being a much better filly anymore; i think her peers have caught up to her.

CSC 03-07-2009 05:36 PM

I don't know what it is with Mike Smith with fillies & mares, he's ridden some great one's throughout his career. Saying that, that was not a good ride on Stardom Bound. That horse had every excuse to lose with that trip.

Scav 03-07-2009 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy
I feel if I use the "I wouldnt back him with counterfeit" line, it'll come back to bite me..

Matto Mondo for me with Champs and Dansant to follow him home. Dansant isnt actually that bad - ignore his last run and he has a strong enough profile (ratings wise) and should be very much at home on the surface which cant be said for the rest!

Such an American hater!!

pgardn 03-07-2009 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
I don't know what it is with Mike Smith with fillies & mares, he's ridden some great one's throughout his career. Saying that, that was not a good ride on Stardom Bound. That horse had every excuse to lose with that trip.

I did not really see the entire trip.
The place horse came out pretty bad there
on Smith.

Merlinsky 03-07-2009 05:44 PM

They do know they're supposed to run straight right? Seriously what are they trying to do to my ticker?

Is it fair to assume Stardom Bound is just not improving as much as her peers or is it a function of her running style that sometimes her races'll give you a pucker factor?

Danzig 03-07-2009 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky
They do know they're supposed to run straight right? Seriously what are they trying to do to my ticker?

Is it fair to assume Stardom Bound is just not improving as much as her peers or is it a function of her running style that sometimes her races'll give you a pucker factor?

deep closers can be fun to watch, but as you said, they can give you some anxious moments as well.
but her last two, imo, are nothing like what she was doing last fall. i think she's exhibited the same precocity as her sire and dam and that her peers will be notching some wins on her within the next race or two. i think the gap has closed considerably.

Rudeboyelvis 03-07-2009 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
I don't know what it is with Mike Smith with fillies & mares, he's ridden some great one's throughout his career. Saying that, that was not a good ride on Stardom Bound. That horse had every excuse to lose with that trip.

He clearly expected her to have much more than she showed going into the turn... I'd expect them to bring her back softly - hate to make a decision about the Derby off one effort, but I wouldn't touch her at this point if she comes out of the race ok

The Indomitable DrugS 03-07-2009 05:47 PM

I don't see what was wrong with the ride or how it was any different than any of the other ones he's given her.

Last early, out in the clear on the backstretch, and circle the field.

I guess he got caught a little wider than usual because the field stacked up some .. but the wider the better on these synthetics.

That track has been a little more kind to speed the last 10 days... but I'd still rather be 8 wide and have the best late speed in the field than be a early speed type.

Danzig 03-07-2009 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis
He clearly expected her to have much more than she showed going into the turn... I'd expect them to bring her back softly - hate to make a decision about the Derby off one effort, but I wouldn't touch her at this point if she comes out of the race ok

from the interview i heard, she will be continuing vs females.

CSC 03-07-2009 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
I did not really see the entire trip.
The place horse came out pretty bad there
on Smith.

Well I have to retract abit, it wasn't as bad as I first thought, saved ground around the first turn and very wide on the final turn. A lesser horse wouldn't have won, but when you have the best horse I guess you can afford to lose abit of ground. Abit being the operative word...Very close to losing on the heavy favorite giving up that much ground.

Danzig 03-07-2009 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I don't see what was wrong with the ride or how it was any different than any of the other ones he's given her.

Last early, out in the clear on the backstretch, and circle the field.

I guess he got caught a little wider than usual because the field stacked up some .. but the wider the better on these synthetics.

That track has been a little more kind to speed the last 10 days... but I'd still rather be 8 wide and have the best late speed in the field than be a early speed type.

it was his typical ride on her, and a typical run from her-the difference is the competition is doing better now than they had in races' past imo.

ArlJim78 03-07-2009 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy
I feel if I use the "I wouldnt back him with counterfeit" line, it'll come back to bite me..

Matto Mondo for me with Champs and Dansant to follow him home. Dansant isnt actually that bad - ignore his last run and he has a strong enough profile (ratings wise) and should be very much at home on the surface which cant be said for the rest!

yeah i don't have a solid feeling about any of them, i can see any number of them taking it depending on the pace.

I guess I'm pulling for Heroi Do Bafra. The claimer to GR1 angle is one of my favorites.

CSC 03-07-2009 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I don't see what was wrong with the ride or how it was any different than any of the other ones he's given her.

Last early, out in the clear on the backstretch, and circle the field.

I guess he got caught a little wider than usual because the field stacked up some .. but the wider the better on these synthetics.

That track has been a little more kind to speed the last 10 days... but I'd still rather be 8 wide and have the best late speed in the field than be a early speed type.

You'd think he thought he was riding Zenzatta, that's his MO.

brockguy 03-07-2009 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
Such an American hater!!

if Dansant wins, Ill never post here again!! :)

Travis Stone 03-07-2009 06:07 PM

Fillies never tend to progress like males do from 2 to 3... Stardom Bound, touted by some as the next Derby winner, is another example IMO.

Danzig 03-07-2009 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone
Fillies never tend to progress like males do from 2 to 3... Stardom Bound, touted by some as the next Derby winner, is another example IMO.

i agree. but i also feel she was yet another top two year old filly who will not be as domineering as the three year old season progresses.

The Indomitable DrugS 03-07-2009 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
You'd think he thought he was riding Zenzatta, that's his MO.

Style wise, I see no difference between the two horses.

You didn't think he was going to actually try and weave his way through traffic on a 1/5 favorite that sticks out like a sore thumb?

Danzig 03-07-2009 06:13 PM

and perhaps there were still so many in the way, to be passed, because the other three year old fillies are better than what she had to blow by previously?
you have to expect on a deep closer that he/she will almost always be fanned wide and not have a perfect trip, especially with a full field.
but the 'old' stardom bound would have made it look effortless-she still is the old horse, but her competition is not.

CSC 03-07-2009 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Style wise, I see no difference between the two horses.

You didn't think he was going to actually try and weave his way through traffic on a 1/5 favorite that sticks out like a sore thumb?

You know what they say, Jocks can't win most of the times anyway. Lose and you are a bum, win all is forgiven. A nose the other way and that ride would have been much more magified. Regardless I understand your point and I agree with it to a point, I would even agree with you more if not for the rider, who has always shown a disdain for the rail for much of his career.

AeWingnut 03-07-2009 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy
if Dansant wins, Ill never post here again!! :)


but I put flat money on Dansant :(


gimme the horse to weigh down

I mean to bet

:wf

Habersham000 03-07-2009 06:51 PM

Artiste Royal had a terrible trip...Bejarano had him parked behind the the fading speed with no where to go. I would have like to see him with some room, I love his usual closing kick.

The Indomitable DrugS 03-07-2009 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
the rider, who has always shown a disdain for the rail for much of his career.

Yeah, over the last seven or eight years he's never seen a seven path he didn't like.

However, saving ground is much more important on the turf and dirt ... that synthetic track out there is very wide path friendly.

brockguy 03-07-2009 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
but I put flat money on Dansant :(


gimme the horse to weigh down

I mean to bet

:wf

:)
ah ive just had a longer look - wide wide open, if blue exit is only 7-1 now despite worse euro form than Dansant at 19-1, i think he might actually do OK.

AeWingnut 03-07-2009 06:59 PM

I'm betting Stream Cat

he can't flatten out in the stretch every race


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