It's almost like saying Stardom Bound is going to win the Kentucky Derby.

Not at all.

Stardom Bound stunk... she was slow and beat nothing fields in unimpressive fashion.

all of IP's dirt races have been huge and Zeyatta would have to find a lot better.

Zenyatta is not in the top 10 female horses this year.........dont you read this message board, get a clue.

Are you using the synthetic figures to make that statement?

Anyone who saw the Del Cap and has even the slightest bit of a clue knows which horse was much the best that day.

If anyone, for even one second, thinks that Zenyatta had a tougher trip against Anoyabab's Creation than Icon Project did against a very solid horse in Swift Temper .. they simply have no clue what they're talking about.

What is with you and your speed figure obsession?

Of course not.

what are you using as a gauge, her run 10 starts ago at Oaklawn?

Yes ... obviously.

Based on synthetic form, there is no conclusive proof that Zenyatta is better now than she was at that time.

In fact, I took a lot of flack for saying Zenyatta was better than Nashoba's Key at the time.

Her dirt race at Oaklawn also wasn't as good as a lot of people seem to think.

I forgot that King Glorious liked SB to win the Derby ...

This post was way more clever than I first thought.

So we have a theoretically possible Beldame of RA, Zenyatta, Icon Project and Careless Jewel.

I know it won't happen, but as far daydreaming goes, it is better than a lot of stuff I've read around here.

We'll be lucky to get 2 of the 4.

so where would you rank her in terms of the filly horses, you know based on talent?

In my opinion Careless Jewell is a very exciting prospect and most likely the next best filly in the game, however I wouldn't throw her to the wolves of Zenyatta and RA just yet, she's only had 2 races on dirt and is still relatively early in her progression. Get her battle ready with a few more races and then take on the big girls, she won't disgrace herself.

:tro:

and careless jewel...

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31349

Its almost as hysterical as people saying Rachel wasnt running in the Travers for fear of Quality Road. That her camp was ducking a horse who had run only once since the FL Derby and at 6 1/2 F. I'd be more scared to run against the Cool Coal Man than QR.

Please note that my response was extremely tongue in cheek. Perhaps I'm not the one who needs to get a clue.

Well all that remains to be seen, but she and IP Beyered out the same (106). CJ can't win the 3yo filly award, but taking down one of the top two would not be impossible and I don't see how it would "ruin" her to try, if given the chance. Sometimes you just have to face a top horse and try your best. If the hypothetical Beldame where to come to pass, I'd see nothing wrong with her giving it shot--RA would be at the end of a long, ambitious campaign and Zenyatta has raced tomato cans on chewed up credit cards all year. And, as you say, CJ is moving forward. Hell, I might bet her myself at 8-1 or 10-1, which is where she'd be in Beldame that included those four.

You will note that even though I had Stardom Bound on top, it was during her winning streak and even then, I had Rachel as the #2 3yo in the country, male or female. As soon as Stardom Bound lost, I reevaluated. Soon as Rachel won the Oaks, I posted about how STUPID I was to ever believe Stardom Bound could beat her. See, that's the difference with me and some of these others. I may have an opinion on something but when I'm proven wrong, I'll admit it and take shots at myself. Most others on here never reevaluate their positions. If a horse doesn't do what they expected, they just look into the book of 1000 excuses to explain it away and hold onto their position. I won't. I'll just tell you my horse sucked and I was stupid from the start.

I know, I just like to bust ba**s...

You give up on horses way too easily King. Case in point Rail Trip who you touted when he was on his win streak then you bashed when he lost. You called him a POS. Then he won in brilliant fashion last time out.

the owner guy is new to the industry.. has a big barn of real good Arabians or Paso Fino's or whatnot .. Decided he wanted to get into the TB game and started at the top! (good for us)

and you dont think mine was? wow

I know Caroll has mentioned she will be BC bound or that is atleast the target, she can run on poly(Woodbine wins) but in my opinion she looks better on dirt. She has options in The Spinster I guess or the Belmont route, she's legit in my mind and she runs on with a high crusing speed, she can only get better with more racing.

He won nicely last out but that doesn't change the fact that he ran like a pos in those loses. I thought he ran like a pos and that's exactly what I said. Doesn't mean that he'll always be that. I don't understand this "give up on them easily" stuff. I don't have any loyalty to any of them. If I like them and they run like crap, I'll say that. If I don't like them and they run really good, I'll say that. I try to evaluate each horse on a race by race basis and not just say everything they do is good. Being honest about a performance doesn't mean you can't like a horse anymore.

114 Beyer for Icon Project.

A Wolfson special...:rolleyes:

I'm definitely dubious of Wolfson's amazing move-ups, etc. but this one might just be a good horse. It's not like she's cheap.

My mistake--I was looking at an earlier Beyer for her (June 20).

I agree, if anything she underperformed on turf. I am skeptical of Magic Marty but she did yesterday what a good horse does. I think she's a very, very talented horse.

NT

If I talk her up will she ever win again?

If your heart is in it, yeah, she's most likely doomed.

By the way, thanks for the vote in the most unbearable poster poll in esoteric!

Icon Project is the female version of Cigar. She will continue to do awesome things with the surface switch.

Only 6 points off of Go For Wand, Mariah's Storm, and Xtra Heat for fastest figure ever from a female.

That is ridiculous.

what is?

That I forgot about Xtra Heat?

Icon Project's 6 pts off the fastest female beyer ever.

That, and that you believe that.

You disagree with the number yesterday?

It wasn't an easy day to make figures and their was a split ... but I think it had to be in the 112-to-115 range.

And there were no smoke and mirrors about the performance.

Hard to imagine her, or that race, being in the same area code as the Lakeway 117, Sharp Cat 119 or Akinemod 119.

It's actually pretty stupid.

Come to think of it, Riboletta's pairs of 115, I just can't see that as being just barely better than Icon Project's 114.

You'd need an ice pick stabbed into your frontal lobes, hooked up to a power drill for some stirring, to really believe that.

Going back to '92 ...

Fastest Beyer ever in a 10 furlong dirt race at Saratoga:

Male: Point Given 117

Female: Silverbulletday 115