For the critics of Recapturetheglory who say he is not fast. He has the second fastest dirt beyer and second fastest rag out of all 3yr old dirt efforts.

Big Brown's Best Beyer 106
Recapturetheglory 102.

Big Brown's best Rag 2
Recapturetheglory best rag 4.

sorry War Pass is injured. That is never a good thing.

So... who gets in that wasn't?

There is more to horse racing but not more to determining if a horse is fast or not. Recapturetheglory is a fast horse and if Big Brown bumped heads with him early you could kiss both of them goodbye. If I was BB I would rather have War Pass in the derby than not have him in there. If Bob doesn't take to the dirt a horse like Recapture could be out there all alone.

You seem to be confusing early speed and speed figures

Well at least I am not down on my knees in front of Zito with my mouth wide open like some people on this board. And at my age, I will take a hard on anytime.

thanks for bringing these facts to light, its looks like you've really done your research.

The sad thing is that while you would never be in this situation, you would have tried the same exact thing with War Pass, and it really wasn't because they stretched him out. Horses stretch out all the time.

For you to think Zito ruined this horse, just shows you have a very bias opinion.

To be fair to Zito, he has done some good training jobs. War Pass was not completely 100% healthy for the Tampa Bay Derby. Then he puts the horse in a spot (The Wood) knowing that it was highly unlikely he would get the distance. Then the horse goes out there and runs blazing fractions in the Wood. I think it is up to the trainer to know what type of horse he/she has (this mistake happens all the time). Zito should have known War Pass was a horse that was better at distances between 7 furlongs and 1 1/16 miles. Some believe the plan was good for War Pass. But the plan didn't work. Some people on this board believe that when a plan doesn't work then the horse was mismanaged. For me, I think the plan for War Pass should have been a plan that included the Preakness instead of the Derby if you wanted to run in a Triple Crown race. However, he should have been pointed to the Met Mile.

don't tell them that.! you are giving away secrets, like actually handicapping! like i said on the other thread: if the beyers and speed figs are so accurate how come everyone isn't getting rich and quitting their jobs? why do 2-5 shots lose ? if you are basing all your bets on figs you don't know much about the actual racing part ! i don't care if big brown ran a 140, i don't think he will get 1 mile 1/4 off 3 races with sore feet .

You seem to have good insight. I'm just wondering if you posted this view prior to WP getting injured.

Spyder

No. I am saying a horse with early speed that puts up big speed figures is not just early speed. This horse is very dangerous if left alone on the lead. He isn't going to fold without some pressure. This Cherokee Run becomes much more dangerous without the other Cherokee Run in there. Now Bob Black Jack is the only horse i can see going with him and he seemed to try to rate his last race.

I believe I stated several times that War Pass had distance limitations. I put him in my Derby top 5 because someone would have to pass him and all these horses are pretty bad (see War Emblem). So why not take a shot with a horse that was going to be 15-1 or more who at least will be on or very very near the lead. I didn't post a plan for him because no one asked me.

Usually owners call the shots with Derby horses, not trainers. They were smart to do what they did. He always had a small shot if the track came up sloppy. If they didn't try and it rained that day they would never forgive themselves.

Zito already has an older horse that is targeting the Met Mile and there is no reason to run 3yr olds against older horses that early in the year.

LOL.

Eric

Funny Cide, Sheik Mo and favorite racecaller probably deserve a spot on your list. they consistently draw a crowd.

I would normally agree with your statement that owners call the shots. But LaPenta values Zito's opinion greatly and I am sure Zito could have talked him out of running War Pass in the Derby. I would say the blame should be shared between the two of them. And if Zito has a horse already being pointed to the Met Mile, then run War Pass in the Preakness. Heck, they have Cool Coal Man for the Derby. If Cool Coal Man wins the Derby then they have two for the Preakness. If CCM doesnt win the Derby, then you have War Pass for the Preakness and CCM for the Belmont with a 5 week layoff.

all-all-4-all.

3 out of 4.

Listen, the bottom line is that the colt has no chance to win the race and only about a 0.0000001% chance of hitting the board. In a race with very few tosses, he is absolutely one of them.
The colt is 2 for 2 lifetime on the Hawthorne strip and 0 for 4 everywhere else. You can cite all of the BSFs you want too, but with the kind of trip he got in the Illinois Derby, it sure means a lot less than it otherwise would. I hope you know that there is absolutely no way he'll run a 102 going 10f at CD. He'll be lucky to top 90.
At this point I don't think I'll be betting on Big Brown either, but comparing him to Recapturetheglory is a little nutty in my opinion.