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-   -   10/9 (KEE): Shadwell, Futurity, First Lady, TCA, Woodford (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38732)

RockHardTen1985 10-09-2010 01:11 PM
Not to mention twice running third to Goldikova, once 4th when Goldikova was third beaten a head. Also not badly beaten by Zarkava. Really not sure what anyones beef could be with this gal.

ateamstupid 10-09-2010 01:23 PM
EVERYTHING I SAY IS IMPORTANT.

Dude, she's slow. She was an also-ran in France and she would be here if we had any turf fillies/mares who were worth anything. She never threatened Goldikova or Zarkava except for once when Goldi didn't fire on soft turf. What she did in France is meaningless anyway considering I'm talking about what she is now. She was life and death to beat Shared Account and Forever Together in the Diana. How did those two look in the Flower Bowl? How have Phola and My Princess Jess come back to run? She's beating dregs, there's no two ways about it.

the_fat_man 10-09-2010 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 705385)
Ok Jose... But you will defend other horses to the death, even the ones who get beat all the time, but because they can run 104 beyers? Proviso is the goods, ONLY WAY SHE GETS BEAT TODAY IS WITH A BAD TRIP FROM MIKE. What was wrong with her Spinster? BC Ladies Classic? Even her G1 sprint race? Where is her bad or off day? Im really not seeing her bad race? Tell me where its at, and why you would say you hope todays the day she gets beat? The truth is, every single race she has been in, on turf, has been a slow paced race. If anything she has been totally up against it in her last 3 races, all G1's one vs males.
Take this with good intent. Proviso has gotten good trip after good trip. Maybe she gets another one today and wins. Maybe her quota of good trips is up for her racing career and she actually has to run a bit toady. Or, at least, she doesn't get the best trip in the race. It's not that she can't win. It's that you're so wrong about the 'quality' of her trips.

Travis Stone 10-09-2010 06:06 PM
I hope Gio Ponti goes in the Mile... I think he has a legit chance against Goldikova.

Sightseek 10-09-2010 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone (Post 705515)
I hope Gio Ponti goes in the Mile... I think he has a legit chance against Goldikova.
The Mile is going to be the most interesting race on the card.

RockHardTen1985 10-10-2010 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 705391)
EVERYTHING I SAY IS IMPORTANT.

Dude, she's slow. She was an also-ran in France and she would be here if we had any turf fillies/mares who were worth anything. She never threatened Goldikova or Zarkava except for once when Goldi didn't fire on soft turf. What she did in France is meaningless anyway considering I'm talking about what she is now. She was life and death to beat Shared Account and Forever Together in the Diana. How did those two look in the Flower Bowl? How have Phola and My Princess Jess come back to run? She's beating dregs, there's no two ways about it.

No two ways about it?? Hmmm well she explodes from last, crushing everyones hero Wasted Tears... Also ran much faster then Gio Ponti. How many G1's this year? She was FAR from an also ran in France, but whatever you say Jose.

Cannon Shell 10-10-2010 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey2315 (Post 705005)
I was talking this over with someone who has a better handle on the bloodstock side of things, and he brought up a good point. The only race that Gio can run in that will enhance his stud fee is the classic. If he were to run 3rd or something it would probably add like $5K to his fee.
I don't think running third in the Classic will do much for his fee unless it was a blanket finish where he got into trouble and was much the best. You arent going to convince people he is anything other than a turf horse without something really memorable. But I do believe that a win in the dirt mile would certainly greatly enhance his credentials.

ateamstupid 10-12-2010 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 705723)
No two ways about it?? Hmmm well she explodes from last, crushing everyones hero Wasted Tears... Also ran much faster then Gio Ponti. How many G1's this year? She was FAR from an also ran in France, but whatever you say Jose.
She beat C.S. mf'ing Silk by a neck. You seriously think that's the accomplishment that should sway me? The pace was faster in the First Lady, so it was obviously going to yield a comparable time to the Shadwell. Wasted Tears was never given a chance by Maragh, who was too worried about a fast pace to let his horse run her race.

RockHardTen1985 10-12-2010 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 706572)
She beat C.S. mf'ing Silk by a neck. You seriously think that's the accomplishment that should sway me? The pace was faster in the First Lady, so it was obviously going to yield a comparable time to the Shadwell. Wasted Tears was never given a chance by Maragh, who was too worried about a fast pace to let his horse run her race.
You never stop... Continue ripping the actual good horses, and tout YOUR FAST ONES.

ateamstupid 10-12-2010 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 706574)
You never stop... Continue ripping the actual good horses, and tout YOUR FAST ONES.
Continue losing your money every week because you hate the Jets and can't admit that they're way better than you thought. Who's the square here?

Again, she beat C.S. Silk by a neck. You can't possibly think that'll make her competitive in the Mile.

RockHardTen1985 10-12-2010 07:34 PM
What does this have to do with the Jets? When did I make any mention of the BC Mile?

ateamstupid 10-12-2010 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 706577)
What does this have to do with the Jets? When did I make any mention of the BC Mile?
Since you run away like a bitch in the sports forum after you're wrong about them every week, I have to find you elsewhere to hold you accountable.

Obviously if she's as good as you think she is, she should be competitive in the BC Mile. Or are you content just to marvel at her neck victories over C.S. Silk and Shared Account?

RockHardTen1985 10-12-2010 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 706579)
Since you run away like a bitch in the sports forum after you're wrong about them every week, I have to find you elsewhere to hold you accountable.

Obviously if she's as good as you think she is, she should be competitive in the BC Mile. Or are you content just to marvel at her neck victories over C.S. Silk and Shared Account?
Ok

Dahoss 10-12-2010 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 706579)
Since you run away like a bitch in the sports forum after you're wrong about them every week, I have to find you elsewhere to hold you accountable.

Obviously if she's as good as you think she is, she should be competitive in the BC Mile. Or are you content just to marvel at her neck victories over C.S. Silk and Shared Account?
I don't know man....she's no Goldikova, but she's pretty good by 2010 standards. I don't think there is a whole lot separating her and Gio Ponti. She probably can't beat Goldikova, but I think she'll be competitive in the mile.

ateamstupid 10-12-2010 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 706600)
I don't know man....she's no Goldikova, but she's pretty good by 2010 standards. I don't think there is a whole lot separating her and Gio Ponti. She probably can't beat Goldikova, but I think she'll be competitive in the mile.
She's a typical also-ran in Europe who looks good against terrible U.S. turf fillies. In most other years, she'd be a nobody. Goldikova and Paco Boy would eat her lunch. I'd take Miss Keller over her too actually. There are a handful of three-year-old milers that would give her fits. It's been an extraordinarily bad year for U.S. turf fillies.

Dahoss 10-12-2010 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 706609)
She's a typical also-ran in Europe who looks good against terrible U.S. turf fillies. In most other years, she'd be a nobody. Goldikova and Paco Boy would eat her lunch. I'd take Miss Keller over her too actually. There are a handful of three-year-old milers that would give her fits. It's been an extraordinarily bad year for U.S. turf fillies.
Are you sure we're talking about the same horse? She won a group 3 at Longchamp and was beaten 4 by Goldikova at Deauville. She beat males in the Kilroe. I guess we'll see in the Breeders Cup, but I don't think she's anywhere near the horse you are making her out to be.

By no means is she a superstar and they won't be making a plaque for her in Saratoga. I agree, she probably isn't good enough to beat Goldikova or Paco Boy. Who is in this country?

ateamstupid 10-12-2010 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 706611)
Are you sure we're talking about the same horse? She won a group 3 at Longchamp and was beaten 4 by Goldikova at Deauville. She beat males in the Kilroe. I guess we'll see in the Breeders Cup, but I don't think she's anywhere near the horse you are making her out to be.

By no means is she a superstar and they won't be making a plaque for her in Saratoga. I agree, she probably isn't good enough to beat Goldikova or Paco Boy. Who is in this country?
A Group 3? That makes her a legitimate Euro turf horse? She beat Fluke in the Kilroe. Male, female, hermaphrodite, he's just not very good. Ever a Friend was favored in that race FFS. She's beaten nobody this year.

Dahoss 10-12-2010 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 706614)
A Group 3? That makes her a legitimate Euro turf horse? She beat Fluke in the Kilroe. Male, female, hermaphrodite, he's just not very good. Ever a Friend was favored in that race FFS. She's beaten nobody this year.
You said she was an also ran in Europe. She wasn't. Who are the supposed turf monsters here that she hasn't beaten? Again, she isn't the second coming of Miesque, but you're making it seem like she's a claimer. She's not.

ateamstupid 10-12-2010 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 706616)
You said she was an also ran in Europe. She wasn't. Who are the supposed turf monsters here that she hasn't beaten? Again, she isn't the second coming of Miesque, but you're making it seem like she's a claimer. She's not.
No, all I said is she's beaten nobody and she has no chance in the Mile. She didn't win anything significant in Europe either.

parsixfarms 10-13-2010 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 706617)
No, all I said is she's beaten nobody and she has no chance in the Mile. She didn't win anything significant in Europe either.
Is this really relevant? While the improved U.S. performances of horses that come over from Europe may be the function of class relief, for several, it is the addition of Lasix or the access to firmer ground than races are typically contested over in Europe. That's why in so many of the fall turf races the European form doesn't translate into equivalent American form, and we see the "other Euros" outperform their odds.


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