Team wins are meaningless in determining whether a pitcher pitched well or not. I don't see any other way around that. Verlander went eight innings and gave up one ER two weeks ago and lost because Dan Haren went nine innings and gave up zero. Does that mean Verlander didn't pitch well in that start? Of course not.

no but,

W L W W W W W W W W

and

W W W W W W W W W W

indicate some damn good pitching... especially when you look at the low scores next to the W.

Verlander and Halladay have been almost mirror images of each other this year. the fact that Halladay gives up one more run per THREE starts doesnt change that, and neither does the fact that Halladays SO / BB ratio is close to double compared to Verlander.

Blonde?

Attachment 1780

Or Brunette?

Attachment 1781

I have no dog in the fight, but this didn't help your arguement out.

Brunette, in a runaway.

They both look like converted men.

God love her, but I'm pretty sure there's a male appendage on Abby Wambach somewhere. Lou Ferrigno would be psyched to have those guns.

its okay. i certainly gave plenty that did help the arguement.

really???

I actually think Hope Solo is rather attractive. Tobin Heath and Alex Morgan (not to mention Heather Mitts, of course) are also pretty hot.

yeah I dont understand clydes comment about Hope Solo looking like a converted man.

She's beautiful in my opinion. Love the eyes.

Should be a good game today.. I have no clue if France is any good or not (they must be good enough to get this far). Go USA!

Not really. Your entire arguement seemed based on "do you watch games?"

I watch at least a baseball game a night and Verlander has been the most dominant pitcher this year. They are all really good, but his stuff has been unhittable many days.

IMO Halladay and Jurrjens are a toss up. They have both been great. As both teams get healthy it should be a great race down to the wire.

According to fangraphs that is not true

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...n=2011&month=0

Philadelphia has 3 of the top 9 in baseball. There really isnt any question of who has the best rotation when you consider how well Worley has pitched
4-1 with a 2.20 era since Oswalt was hurt. If you include Oswalt and (shckingly) Kendrick how can you possibly deny Philadelphia has the best starters in baseball? Because fat Joe Blanton had 6 bad starts?

And do you seriously think 99% of managers and GMs would take Verlander over Halladay the difference in age not withstanding? Really?

Considering Verlander is six years younger than Halladay, absolutely. How can age be not withstanding when we're talking about building a rotation today? Halladay probably has no more than five years left of above average pitching; Verlander probably has double that.

Anyway, It's not like I'm on some island saying Verlander has eclipsed Halladay as the best pitcher in baseball in 2011:

Tim McCarver just said it the other day (not that his opinion means much).

Gerardo Parra of the Diamondbacks called him the best pitcher in baseball after a start last month.

A CBSSports blog from last month quotes scouts as saying with game seven of the World Series on the line, they'd rather have Verlander on the mound than anybody else.

In any event, does his career match up to Halladay to this point? Absolutely not - Halladay is a 1st ballot HOF-er, as far as I'm concerned. But is he a better pitcher than Halladay today, July 13th, 2011? I think a lot of folks in baseball would probably say yes.

I sort of agree.

really? the arguement was the phillies have the best rotation in baseball.

i dont even know how it is debatable.

halladay just got picked out, because he is the ace of our aces.

just because halladay gives up a few more hits than verlander doesnt make him less dominant. Halladay gives up some singles and has amazing damage control. plus he has a great SO/BB ratio. i just dont see how you can look at the stat lines and say verlander is that much better than halladay. he might have the slightest of edges, but they have been pretty equal. i dont care if halladay is giving up 8 hits when he goes 7-9 innings routinely and gives up 1-2 (sometimes 3) runs.

when cliff lee is at his best, he's probably the most unhittable pitcher in baseball. see the month of June... i've never seen anything like it. one of the best pitching months in the entire history of baseball. he has been slightly inconsistant this season though, still, no complaints.

:zz:

Because I actually do watch games and don't just regurgitate stat lines. But I didn't say he was that much better. Just that he has been the most dominant pitcher in baseball this year. If he's 1, then Halladay is 1A if that makes you happy.

I like women that look like women.

I hate to get back on original topic, but they are playing a hell of a game so far.

Hello, Alex Morgan :{>::{>::{>:

Attachment 1782

I'm okay with that.


really, the entire base of the arguement was that the Phillies have the best rotation. i just dont think there's a question. it kind of split onto a roy halladay vs the rest of the cy young candidates.

i could pump up two more pages of Cole Hamels, Cliff Lee and Worley/Oswalt love!

Much better

i dont see it with Hope Solo. she's one sexy woman. is it because of her athletic build?

Verlander 20 starts 12-4 2.15 era 151 IP 101 H 12HR 31BB 147K 4CG WAR 4.5
Halladay 19 starts 11-3 2.45 era 143 IP 129 H 8HR 17BB 138k 6CG WAR 5.1

Considering that Verlander pitches in a decidedly pitchers park and Halladay pitches in a decidedly hitters park it splitting hairs either way.

And if you are going to use advanced metrics as Slotdirt often does it should be noted that Halladays Wins above replacement (WAR) is not only the best in the MLB but Verlander isnt 2nd (4th)

My point remains that there is no way that 99% of managers/GM's are taking Verlander based on this seasons results.

And the irony is I probably would take Verlander too.

US into finals with 3-1 win over very game French team, french came out in second half and tied game 1-1 outplaying the US for quite awhile but then two clutch goals put the game away!

To me,yes they do.

They do have a great rotation. I'll concede they are the best, but I don't think the Braves are that far off. In a year or two I think the Braves rotation is going to be the best. Jurrjens is a beast. Tommy Hanson is very good, Beachy has good stuff and they have a few guys in their farm system that are really good that they have brought up for a spot start here and there this year. Julio Tehran, Randall Delgado and Arodys Vizcaino all have really good stuff.

I think Tehran is going to be a star when he finally gets moved up for good.

There are better examples....but this is like horseshoes.



They're close enough.

I will have to respecfully disagree when it comes to the brunette (hope solo). the blonde.. I see your point.

Aren't they both pictures of Hope Solo? One she has blonde hair, one she's a brunette.

I do hope both teams get and stay healthy for the second half. its much more fun when its a close race. and the nationals are improving, the mets are, well they are the mets. NL east is tough this year.

No big deal.......not involved with either.

they look like two completely different people to me but you could be right!!

if you are right... she needs to stay with the brunette look! Maybe with her long sleave jersey on you just cant see the buffness.. she's freaking gorgeous though. love the eyes / facial features and legs. plus she's a goalie so she's probably a freak..

WAR is obviously subjective depending on who is calculating it, as other websites list Verlander at 5.4 to Halladay's 4.9. Based on what I've seen of both pitchers so far this season, that would be a more accurate indicator of each pitcher's player value.

Also, based on park factor statistics for 2011, the Tigers and Phillies both play in parks that are, on average, friendlier to pitchers than hitters. In 2010, the park factors for Comerica and Citizens Bank were virtually identical (16th and 17th in the league, respectively). In 2009, both parks ranked friendlier to hitters than pitchers (the Cit one spot higher than Comerica 12th versus 13th), and in 2007 and 2008, Comerica was actually a friendlier park to hitters than was Citizens Bank. SO really, the evidence doesn't show that Citizens Bank Park is more of a hitters park than Comerica (not to mention the fact that Halladay's former home field of the old Skydome almost always in recent years yielded fewer runs than the average park).

P.S. - Alex Morgan is still hot.

I think any advantage you want to give Verlander for pitching in a "pitchers" park, when at home, is offset by the fact that Halladay gets an auto out at least once every 9 batters at least 75% of the time. Outside of Adam Dunne, Verlander has no easy outs.

By the by, guy having the most under the radar awesome season this year has to be Gio Gonzalez. That guy's numbers are also pretty sparkling.

She doesn't look hot to me...at all.

Alex Morgan, I mean.