I was not accusing you of using the word! I think I might disagree with you though about something always being offensive or never being offensive. My wife or my brother could say something to me and I wouldn't be offended by it, but if one of the undergraduates I teach said the same exact words to me, I might be offended. Do you see what I mean? I think the same thing holds true for a given word. Who says it.....and how they say it......can have a lot to do with the meaning of it.

I think the reasoning behind it is that, when a Caucasian uses the word n***** against a black person, it's coming from a position of the stronger person using it to knock the weaker. Kicking the cripple, to borrow from Molly Ivins, as it were. Likewise when men use the word c***. When someone black or someone female uses the terms themselves, it's not starting from a position of superior economic or social or physical status; it's from an equal position because, on some level, it can apply to the speaker, too. Taking one to know one.

The fact is, "dick," "prick," "cock" or any other synonym for penis won't ever have the same power because we praise people by associated bravery with having the male equipment-- "ballsy," "cocky," "has cojones," "put his dick on the table," whatever. Whereas no one ever said, "man, she's got some clitoris" or "takes a lot of vagina to do that" or whatever. Call someone female and you're automatically calling them weak. We can call someone a d*ck, but it just doesn't have the same power because being male is not treated like something intrinsically bad- it's more often a compliment "act like a real man". Like "bitch," which doesn't bother me- on some level, I know I'm not a canine, whereas, I always know I have a c*nt. So it can't hurt the same way.

Does that clarify at all? It was good for me to think about it, actually. I'm pleased you called me out on it, really. :)

I am the walrus,
I am the woodchuck....
Coo coo ca choo
Coo coo ca choo

btw...I found a red hair in a lower placement...OH MY! OH MY!
tweezer time.
Love the ignore, Advance. Spares a lot of wasted finger work.
Not you...the arguer.
He's the devil's advocate.

I agree with your analysis completely.

There's a good question-- I always assumed it did, but I guess maybe someone could associate it with acting like a rooster? Strutting around crowing? I don't think "cock of the walk" has anything to do with the penis. Tell you what; I'll google right now and get back to you.

Etymology is fun, yes?

From what I can find, "cocky" originally was derived from "cock" which originally mean a male chicken, and only later became a slang term for penis. (Proving to me that men will nickname their anatomy after ANYTHING.)

And, interesting, due to "cock" becoming more commonly used for "penis" than for "rooster", "cocky" is now becoming a bad word, whereas originally it was quite innocent.

http://www.reference.com/search?q=cock

Unless you're from Australia, in which case "cocky" can mean a cockatiel. Which also struts around as if it knows everything.

I bet this is exactly the direction Steve thought this thread would go when he started it this morning!

I'll drink to that!:eek:

I absolutely get the basis for what you're saying, and I got it before my original post -- I just don't agree with it all.

All that does, I believe, is continue to give those words power...the power that we so much abhor them having.

Call me a ******. I don't care. The word holds no power in my life and it puts me in no place of subordination (though the person using it may certainly be trying to create that effect). It only holds power because people let it, and because they are afraid of saying it for fear of offending someone who still gives that word power. I'd just as soon have nobody using the word at all, but if some people are going to continue to use it as something derogatory, I hold the belief that it is only offensive if I let it be...if I choose to let that word make me "less" than another.

I dont. So it's not.

I know we just approach it from different viewpoints, you're looking at it more sociologically and societally (which i'm familiar with), and I'm just looking at it on a person by person basis. An entire group can only be chained by a word if they allow themselves to be.

I've always taken it to mean being brave, since I assume flopping one's penis out on a table would be an invitation to have it chopped off. eeek.

Though apparently Sid Caesar did literally put his dick on a table before he went on "Saturday Night Live" in order that it's size might be admired.

Or maybe it was Caesar Romero. One of those guys.

a round for the house!


..tims buying

Timm,
I'm with ya on that.
Did I ever tell ya the story about the woodchuck that thought he was a rooster?
The hens always were looking over their shoulders, poor little peckers.
Oh nevermind...you buy the next round.
Cheers!
Cabin fever seems to have set in.
Hey Timm, maybe you can explain this cause I can't figure...
Why is Dick Cheney now being called Darth rather than the dick he is?

how about grow a sack? or lately i've heard sack up...

poor mashed taters.

This thread is hilarious. :D

Fortunately, I don't travel in those circles!

And I absolutely see that viewpoint, too, but on some level, I also see how, by making racial and sexual epithets unacceptable to say, we are passively saying that having racial and sexual prejudices is unacceptable.

And honestly, Brian, I hate to say it, believing as strongly as I do in equal treatment for all of us, but it's different if you're a woman. If a straight man calls you a f*****, you probably stand a reasonable chance of being able to kick the sh*t out of him, being male yourself. We don't. A man calls us something we don't like, there's not much we can do because physically, nine times out of ten, he can beat the crap out of us. And I'm quite muscular and strong, but men are just physically stronger- my first boyfriend post-college was only 2 inches taller than I and maybe 20 pounds heavier, but he could pretty easily wrestle me to the ground. It's the way men are made and there's nothing I can do about it. And so, by calling me a derogatory term for my vagina, a guy is asserting that he's in a more powerful position than I am because ultimately, I can't do anything about him calling me those names, other than not sleep with him, and if you come down to it, he's strong enough to make that happen too if he wants. Ergo my non-issue with women using it, and my big issue with men using it. Make in unacceptable to use the words, and you make the inclination behind the word unacceptable too.

(Which is not to say a group claiming the words for themselves should substitute for actual attempts to make things better. I think it can be an easy substitute for working within those groups for real change.)

And informative! I'm certainly learning a lot.

I've heard "grow a sack," too. But no one ever says "grow a clitoris."

Though I guess I've heard "so-and-so needs to get laid" used for both sexes, which is a fine equal-opportunity insult. :)

(and, in a funny way, I applaud the attempt by the man on the subway last week to make n***** a racially-neutral epithet)