[quote=oracle80]To call it a weakness is the understatement of the year. He won't turn a horse out unless they are so lame that they can hardly walk. He breaks down so many horses that many of the big insurance companies will not insure his horses. I think that says it all. In addition, his win percenatage is 9%. If you think he's a good trainer, you can recommend that some of your owners give their next horse to him.

Oh that must have been why he lost by 15 lengths. Otherwise he would have been right there. LOL.

I have no real opinion on this topic, although I think Lukas' record proves he's going to be remembered as one of the top trainers of all time... In the end, people are defined by what they've accomplished, not how well they were liked.

But I will say, I was the date of a guy who was invited to Satish's daughter's wedding. It was held at Padua and it was beautiful. But the date, a very high-end re-insurance owner, said that Satish wasnt well liked in the business world for a multiple of reasons I wont divulge.

Whether this has any bearing on the current topic, its not my place to say as it is second-hand, but there was direct corrilations between the two.

My memory must be failing me. Lukas trained a champion last year? Are you referring to Azeri? I didn't think she won any Eclipse award last year. She certainly shouldn't have.

You are right that in the history books Lukas will be remebered as one of the all-time greats. Some people may think that is all that matters. I don't know. I will tell you that he doesn't have the respect of his peers. They all think he's a terrible trainer and they all laugh at him. Some people may think that it's just sour grapes. That's not the case because you don't hear them saying that any other top trainers are terrible trainers.

He's talking about Folklore.

Didn't Folklore win the Filly Juvie Champ last year?

I was in Lukas' barn this summer and he had about 30 horses. He still has some for Mrs. Lewis including Simon Pure who won a race at SAR.
Those who know nothing of someone's business dealings should not profess knowledge they don't have.

I looked over every horse in the barn and saw many of them train and or race. They hardly looked abused.

DWL changed the business. He has proven to be the greatest "trainer of trainers" the game has ever seen. Pletcher, McLaughlin, Hennig, Maker and others have gone on to success. Those guys didn't get to where they are by watching a moron.

BTW, Going Wild looked great at SAR. He was second to Silver Wagon in a prep for the Forego. They skipped the Forego for an allowance and ran into Discreet Cat. He never had a "serious injury" just some of the same nagging issues that plague most race horses. He's a racehorse for crissakes. On the other thread folks are bemoainign how infrequently horses race and here Wayne's bashed for RACING his RACE HORSES!

Hennig? You're not actually insinuating he's good....are you?

As I've said before, none of those guys train anything like him. He hardly taught those guys to train. I'm not saying that they don't owe much of their success to him, quite to the contrary. Those guys made great contacts by working for Lukas. Not only that, but they learned a ton from Lukas about how to run an operation and about the whole business aspect of being a trainer. In terms of actual training methods, you won't find any of those guys doing anything similar to Wayne.

[quote=Linny]I was in Lukas' barn this summer and he had about 30 horses. He still has some for Mrs. Lewis including Simon Pure who won a race at SAR.
Those who know nothing of someone's business dealings should not profess knowledge they don't have.

I looked over every horse in the barn and saw many of them train and or race. They hardly looked abused.

Nobody is saying that his horses aren't well fed. I'm sure they look fine sitting in their stalls. They're not abused in that way. You have to look at the number of horses he has broken down. The numbers don't lie. Why don't you try calling some of the thoroughbred insurance companies out there. Tell them that you just bought a 2 year old and and you want to insure him. Then tell them that your trainer is Lukas and see what they say. You will see that you will have a hard time finding a company that will sell you insurance.

[quote=Dixie Porter]You never have anything to say. You make a lot of snide comments but you you never post anything of any substance.

I have no idea if you're a smart guy or not. If you are a smart guy, nobody here will ever know it if you don't explain yourself. You say stuff like, "You don't know how to train a horse to get the most out of him."

That's not telling us anything. That's not giving us any information. If you don't think I know how to train to get the most out of a horse, then tell us what part of my thinking is wrong and tell us what the proper way to get the most out of a horse is.

You obviously had no explanation as to why Jerkens win percentage is higher when he gives his horses a break, so you simply called my percentages "lame".

If you think that anyone is going to be impressd with your knowledge by making snide remarks you are mistaken. If you really do have some knowledge, then post it. I'd be happy to hear what you have to say. Nobody is going to learn anything from your comments like "Your percentages are lame" or "You don't know how to get the most out of a horse".

Yep, she sure did...that was one heck of a nice filly. It is a shame she had to be retired...

considering his past performances, yes he should have been:

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/06whitney.pdf

Your earlier post:
"Who knows what they did to FA to get that big effort out of him in the BC Classic. He had just gotten beat by 15 lengths. If you have a horse with an injury and inject them to get one more race out of them, there is a good chance that they will not come back 100%. That is always the risk if you try to get one or two moe races out of a horse that is showing the beginning of a minor injury."

Big effort? He performed that day the same as races prior to the rabbit, dumb jock and the gold cup performance. So are you implying that he was on something beforehand, went off in the Gold Cup and then was put back on for the Classic?

I think Pletcher made a mistake not starting FA sooner in the year. He never cited injury as the reason for not starting him in the spring, but the desire to have a fresh horse for the fall.

[quote=Dixie Porter]You obviously are not a very good reader either. I never said that horses who sustain serious injuries will usually come back 100%. I said that if you stop on a horse before a problem gets too serious that they will often times come back 100%.

[quote=Dixie Porter]Oh yer a myth alright....a mythomaniac.

[quote=Dixie Porter]Don't you charge by the minute? (Couldn't resist.) :D

I agree with you that he was too close to a pretty fast pace that day. I think that could have cost him 3-4 lengths but not 15.

I wasn't implying that the horse was on something in any of his races. I was saying that he probably had a minor issue such as a puffy ankle or that type of thing. They probably didn't think it was bothering him so they had no reason to treat it before the JCGC. When he ran so bad, they realized that it was bothering him so they injected the ankle for the BC Classic. I'm not saying that this is definitely waht happened. I am saying that this type of thing happens all the time and it is likely that this is the type of thing that happened with FA.

Trainers will never tell you about this type of thing. You will never heara trainer in an interview say, "The horse ran better today because we injected his ankle, knee, etc."

Sorry for imposing, but I'm sure that there was an injury. Late starts back usually always equate to illness or injury. That is why he has been running so poorly all year. The JCGC performance last year coupled with the BC performance, the late start back, and the poor racing performances this year are all indicators that something went amiss with FA. It's a shame too...

FA has had plenty of time to come back into form this year. Don't you think the reason that he hasn't is because of an injury? In this case, it is most likely a pretty significant injury, because most horses are running with minor ailments anyway and still manage to perform well. His performances have been horrible this year, except for the very first one. They are such fragile creatures...