Gulfstream Screws the Bettors
 

Today's 9th race was taken off the turf after the 7th race had been run thus screwing bettors who played the late Pick-3, Pick-4 and Pick-6. It seems Gulfstream toyed with taking the 7th off but as there was only nine minutes to post for that race. at that time, they left it on. However, they did not seem to understand the urgency of the decision about the 9th at that time, as bettors who were playing the late Pick-3 at least could still be saved.

When you couple this decision with the haphazard removal of turf races on two previous race days, both of which were followed by turf racing on the very next day conducted on a course labeled FIRM, it is hard to have confidence in any decision they make. However, at least in those cases the biggest loser was themselves, in terms of lost handle, while today it is almost exclusively the bettors that get screwed. At a time when our game needs all the help it can get it is even further annoying to see one of the year's premier meets being handled this ineptly ( and unfairly ).

Never liked the payouts or late money changes at GP. Not a place that takes much of my action....Seen NY do similar, with taking races off.

Gee..I wonder if they would change the 25 cents slots to 50 cents when people are playing them ? But the horse players can get jerked around every day.. Go Figure !:confused:

Sadly, same sh!t, different day, especially when it comes to Magna.

I played the race then looked up at the starting gate which was to my amazement back in the dirt chute.

I blamed myself for not having the sound on and not paying enough attention. I hate when that happens though.

I played the late p3 and had the same sinking feeling when they announced the change to the turf after the 7th race was run. I was all prepared to write my own missive, but one of my picks scratched for a conso, and the others ran 1-2, so my ire was squashed. NYRA has gotten their act together on this sort of thing, and its time Gulfstream did likewise. At least Larry Collmus announced the p3/p4 wagers ramifications to the bettors. At Tampa last week there were gate scratches and I didn't know what their rules were as far as the p3's went, I knew the p4 was the post time fave(don't get me started on that can of worms). The track announcer should make customers aware of the rules when this happens, and should also offer an explanation, much like the stewards do on a take down, after all it does affect our money that is being invested. Tracks should also be made to list all wagering rules on their websites for their customers to have available to them. Has anyone even heard one peep out of the new President at Gulfstream ? This guy is a ghost !

Stronach has him in obedience school and there have been a few setbacks. He should be ready in time for next year...just got a get a few kinks worked out.

They're not screwing anybody.

Anyone think a bunch of Magna guys saw it start to rain (and hard for a while AFTER the 7th) went into a conference room and decided to use the weather as an excuse to screw the bettors?

So the race came off after p-4 and p-6 wagers were made.

That's the way it goes sometimes.

You makes your bets and you takes your chances.

i dont think they mad a conscience decision to screw bettors, but anyone who has been to gulfstream a few times as i have knows full well that at the very least they dont seem to be making their best efforts toward accomadating the horse player. i could play $10,000 a day through the pari-mutuels and i dont think one person there would give a crap. but if i throw a dollar in the slots---aha, or at least thats the way they make you feel, and i could give many examples of this, beside what happened today

Please give some examples of how you perceive you have been slighted as a horse player.

I see to today as a race getting taken off the grass because it rained hard. No more than that.

What else?

Some people just don't like the place I guess. But using the weather to throw stones at them? Really, now. What else?

They've got the turf course to run during heavy rains but they choose not to do so.

Really
 

I agree with BTW, they blew it today. It was raining pretty hard when they had the post parade for the 7th race. They did do one good thing in announcing that the track was sealed for the 8th race. They didnot complete their task as good managers though by deciding before the 7th race to take the 9th race off the turf, they waited until all bets were in and then announced the change after the fact. They most likely figured that they would lose alot of Pick 3 handle had they done so. This is an old topic and one which racetrack management should be prepared to make quickly to treat their customers fairly, oops, forgot this is Magna , where the core customer comes last and the clubhouse dinner crowd and sluts, er....slots crowd is catered to.

Ever been on a wet turf, when it's like the hard rock cafe. It ain't pretty. Talk about Black ice. Safty first, betters last.

BTW, you been at the Spa to many years to know we see that all the time up here. That's why I and maybe we, never play a late P4 if the weather buddy say's rain , or t storms coming.

If that was to happen in NY...the P4 would become a P3

Horseplayers don't like it, not anything about it; but stange isn't it, how they still keep the churn in motion through GP's windows daily.

Horseplayers BEING horseplayers have to have something to b@#$% about. Its what horseplayers do best. Stewards, front office management, takeout, weather, brushfire smoke from Santa Ana winds, Jan Rushton's hats, etc, etc, etc. There's no end to it. LOLOL

If the weather was suspect, I may have considered that before putting my ticket together. .....Hhhhmmm, 7ths off, more than likely, the finale too.

Let it pass, its not worth raising your blood pressure.

Yes they ARE screwing people. Anybody that bet the late Pick-3, Pick-4 or Pick-6 was " screwed " as the race that ended up being run as the 9th race was quite simply NOT the race that was run. I never said they made a conscious decision to screw the bettors, as that would be absurd, and only someone desperately trying to infer something would suggest I did, however the result of their decision was that some bettors got screwed.

I spoke to the second in charge of maintenance at Gulfstream and his decision was not based whatsoever with the bettors' interests in mind. While certainly there are other factors, at the very least we are part of the equation. Since this gentleman also told me they thought about taking the 7th off but as there were only nine minutes til post they left it on, they surely could have, and should have, made their decision in regards to the 9th at that time, as least some late Pick-3 bettors could have been protected. it is 100% clear that the best interests of the bettors were disregarded, and while that may be a risk of the game, it does not change what happened. Considering their questionable removal of turf races in the past, where races were run the next day on turf labeled FIRM, all their decisions in this matter are dubious at best.

The 7th was NOT off....it was run on the turf.

Ok, my mistake. But you say nothing else.

It was the WEATHER for heaven sake. God forbid you're screwed, when a decision is made that can possibly be in the better interest of horse and jock because of heavy rain prior. ...I don't like seeing anyone screwed, but count on it, its living.

Done on this one.

I think you're missing the point. No one is mad at the plain fact that they took the race off the turf.. The point is the decision about the 9th race could and should have been made BEFORE the 7th race even went off. It's not asking much for a little foresight by the track officials.(or maybe it is in this case)

well then why not make it a pk.3 then. or better yet run it on the turf.
to me it won't hurt. its not to sat. before the big races. handicap for turf and dirt or as you know two different things.

well then why not make it a pk.3 then. or better yet run it on the turf.
to me it won't hurt. its not to sat. before the big races. handicap for turf and dirt or as you know two different things.

No, I understand fully, that yes indeed the decision could have been made before the 7th, but we all know that the folks that run racetracks are not MIT graduates.

I'm glad there are still horses out back, 5 years from now, that's exceedingly doubtful--not hide nor hair in sight.

They really should have cancelled that portion of the pick3 etc.,and gave out consolations to those who had the 1st two winners of the pick 3 etc. I am almost certain that Keeneland did this last fall,and it is not outrageous to cancel that portion of the multirace wager.People cap for a specific surface,and if they want to run it on another surface,then they need to not have multirace wagers on it.It really is simple.If people are not told that a race is gunna be on another surface(before they make a multirace wager that includes the race,) then they need to take that portion out of the multirace,and give consolations..............This whole idea of ........"you bet,and you're gunna get scrwd sometimes" is sad,and that garbage thinking is for losers.

I agree there is always some risk, as Sent2Stud said, and it is just the nonchallant disregard to bettors' interests that irks me. Since I was told by maintenance that they considered taking off the 7th the least they could have done was made the decision on the 9th earlier than they did. It seems evident that our interests weren't even really disregarded....they simply never even considered them. And THAT is not right.

Plus, since they are often hasty in taking races off the grass, their decisions are at least open to debate. The basic problem is that little done by Gulfstream management reflects any interest in the concerns of bettors.

I'm not desperately trying to connote you're infering anything. Please, get past that for your sake. I could care less about trying to pretend that I am reading your mind and could shoot back and reply that anyone who is trying to infer that I am trying to connote they are inferring,... Frankly I don't care that much.

Notwithstanding what the second in charge of rakes and mowers said, it WAS raining and it WAS possible that the the 9th could come off. To borrow your word, it could be said that only desperate gamblers would not have thought about passing the 3 there.

I have issues....it should be obvious.

I hear what you are saying, and you certainly are far from totally wrong, but the incident is part of a pattern and racetracks have to consider our needs more than they do.

Rakes AND mowers? You're asking a lot.

I truly did think about passing the p3 for the last 3 races. I didnot have much time invested as i wasn't really playing today. Then I figured, hey its raining in the 7th race post parade, but they didnot announce that either the 7th or 9th races would be taken off the turf, so I will play it as it lays. The time to cancel the 9th turf race was during the 7th race post parade downpour and they didn't do it. That was their mistake. SCUDS had it right in calling for an" all payout" for the last race of the p3 in consolations for live tickets. I would have lost money on the deal, as i collected 1 conso and the p3, but it would have been the fair thing to do.

This could be a permanent thread:
(insert name of track ) Screws the bettors

It seems that tracks rarely have a management team that recognizes that it is the bettors that fund this game. As slots continue to grow will the horseplayer be totally forgotten?

You think they would actually notice?

Lets not forget that Tuesday is a dark day so the grass would've gotten a full day off. And they re-did that turf course so they could alter the placement of the rail. What good is a portable rail if you take the races off every time there's a drizzle? But this is a track that cancelled racing two weeks ago when the main track had a little water on it. I'm glad I didn't play GP today. I would've been pissed.

I made the same points about the rails to the maintenance person I spoke to.

Well spoken. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Congrats to you for not being a jaded horseplayer constantly looking to blame someone for a routine surface change to ensure the safety of the horses and the integrity of the racing surface for another day.

I have yet to see horseplayer who hits a PK3 after a late surface change give credit to the track for taking a race off the turf, but surely somebody hit the PK3 even with the surface change. Where is THAT thread?

I actually made a lot of money in the 9th race today but since it was completely irrelevant to the topic I felt no reason to bring it up.

I'm not sure what a " routine surface change " is but I don't think today's events were routine. But, I handicap grass and dirt racing differently, so I think this was an important distinction.

By they way, racing on turf with give is not unsafe. Did you know they heavily water the courses in Europe to make them soft?

Maybe you haven't seen enough races, but when it rains at a racetrack, they 'routinely' take the races off the turf and run them on the dirt. This event at Gulfstream was not the first time it has ever happened. It happens quite often actually, and if you don't like the wagering rules regarding a surface change in a Pk3, then DON'T PLAY THE PK3.

Oh yeah, they also water the turf courses in America. That green stuff they call the 'turf' is actually grass and it requires water to grow.

At Churchill on July 4 of last year, this same thing happened, and they gave consolations to all Pick 3 tickets that had the first race winner.

This actually turned out good for me, since I had a somewhat longshot in the first race, the favorite in the second, and had 3 horses wheeled into the third race, which became an "ALL" winner.

Problem was, they had a tote problem, and couldn't cash the tickets that day. I lived in Ohio, and rarely went to Churchill, but wound up ahead on Breeder's Cup day when I cashed the tickets....

ALostTexan

Actually, I am very jaded. Ever since FOX rejected the pilot episode for my new series, "America's Top Over 40 Fat Nude Male Model" series (produced by, directed by AND starring me), I haven't been the same.

At some point,this becomes a situation of simple courtesy to your customer.Can you instantly change track surface (legally) from turf to dirt? Yes,but if you don't take that race out of previously bet multi-race wagers,then you'll upset a good portion of your customers.Now,right here is the point where (traditionally) track owners and management have often stated (amongst themselves) that it doesn't matter.It doesn't matter,because gamblers are addicted,and won't leave.I simply disagree.I haven't made more than 3 or 4 bets this whole Gulfstream meet.The reasons for that are varied,but the fact is that gamblers can(and do) bet elsewhere when they don't like the way a track does things.

I couldn't agree more.