Weekend Stakes Beyers
 

JOCKEY CLUB GOLD CUP (G1), Curlin 111
BELDAME S. (G1), Cocoa Beach 99
FLOWER BOWL INVITATIONAL (G1), Dynaforce 104
JOE HIRSCH TURF CLASSIC (G1), Grand Couturier 112
VOSBURGH S. (G1), Black Seventeen 108

GOODWOOD S. (G1), Well Armed 105
YELLOW RIBBON S. (G1), Wait a While 97
CLEMENT L. HIRSCH (G1), Red Giant 112
ANCIENT TITLE S. (G1), Cost of Freedom 110
OAK LEAF S. (G1), Stardom Bound 87
LADY'S SECRET S. (G1), Zenyatta 108

HAWTHORNE GOLD CUP H. (G2), Fairbanks 104
ROBERT F. CAREY MEMORIAL H. (G3), Wise River

KENTUCKY CUP CLASSIC (G2), Zanjero 99
KENTUCKY CUP DISTAFF (G3), Bear Now 93
KENTUCKY CUP SPRINT (G3), Fatal Bullet 108
ENTUCKY CUP JUVENILE S. (G3), West Side Bernie 85

ALL AMERICAN H. (G3), Delightful Kiss TBD

TURF AMAZON, Sheets 95
GALLANT BOB, Rollers 101

Wow....seems a little high.

Would love to see Zenyatta go in the BC Classic, instead of the Distaff.
It would benefit both races.

Red Giant got the same fig - and he won his Grade 1 in a desperate battle instead of winning by double digits on a soft turf.

I'm not a big fan of figures for turf racing - but I think all figures become meaningless when the turf becomes soft as the margins between horses tend to get much larger and some horses struggle with the ground.

Beyers I never use them
 

I use Brisnet pp, they are free on TSpires, and the power ratings are my tie -breaker when stuck between 2 runners, I find they are more accurate than Beyers, and i have sucess with them, just an opinion.

You are largely alone in that opinion as most find the Brisnet figures useless. They are computer generated, thereby taking no mitigating race day factors or circumstances into account.

Steve, I'm not disagreeing as I use both BRIS and Beyers. I'm a believer in the more information you have, the better you are off. That and race videos give a capper a much better chance I believe.

I,m glad I am alone on this , works for me and you are saying Beyers, factors on one day will be the same on the next day the horse in question runs? Also the Bris, computer figures are more than just speed rating however I said I us them as a tie -breaker, not a factor alone, They work for me. A figure weather hand calculated, or computer generated is still just a figure to help you in selections. Beyers are no better than speed ratings with variances.

wait a while 97...........yeah, these are meaningfull.

Yeah, I agree. Brisnet figures are a great tool for figuring out where Beyer split the variant or tinkered with the numbers. Then it is up to the horseplayer to determine whether there is better value in following what Beyer did. Beyer is more often right but when he's wrong you'll get value. Mambo looked much better on the Beyer's but ran like his Brisnet figures.

I had Zanjero running a 122-124. 99 seems low.

:rolleyes:

That's fine.. I look at the various BRIS reports and find some useful, but can't take their speed figures seriously if they aren't allowing for the possibility of split variants over the course of an afternoon and the other important variables that go into serious figure making.

The accuracy of the figure is important because it helps give the best possible indication of the performance pattern of the horse in question. An inaccurate figure can skew judgement by giving the wrong impression of the horse's likeliest effort next out...

:rolleyes:

Sheba,

Not to single your post out in this discussion, but actually, that Wait a While figure would appear beyond even discussion in its' accuracy..

The evidence:

RIBBON: 24.53 -- 47.83 -- 1:12.31 -- 1:35.63 -- 1:59.16
HIRSCH: 23.52 -- 45.63 -- 1:08.86 -- 1:32.88 -- 1:57.16

1 - WAIT A WHILE: 97 (Previous 3 BSF's: 105-93-105)
2 - Vacare: 96 (Previous 3 BSF's: 97-96-94)
3 - Black Mamba: 94 (Previous 3 BSF's: 100-96-95)


1 - RED GIANT: 112 (Previous 3 BSF's: 105-93-103)
2 - Out of Control: 112 (Previous 3 BSF's: 46-105-103)
3 - Transduction Gold 10.30-1 BEYER: 101 (Previous 3 BSF's: 101-95-95)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.) The Hirsch was run exactly :02 full seconds faster than the Ribbon.. At 10f, the 15 point spread between Red Giant's 112 and Wait a While's 97 is dead on.

2.) The 97 fits Wait a While's alternating pattern.

3.) Vacare's fig is dead in line with her typical effort.

4.) Black Mamba returned to her typical figure after the slightly bigger the usual effort last.

5.) The Hirsch figures fit and if anything my be a tad high, which would bring the Ribbon and Wait a While's figs DOWN more. Frankly, the Ribbon figures actually STRENGTHEN the credence of the Hirsch figures.

Am I correct in saying the Hirsch was a new world record at a mile and a quarter on turf? Was trying to confirm this on Saturday.

Yes... The turf course was rolling a 12 on the stempmeter.

Listed so far as just a new course record.. Haven't seen reference to world record..

That's what they said on TVG.

I'm confused but wasn't the turf course drenched with rain the day before causing a day's cancellation and these numbers were run on yielding and or soft turf?

HIRSCH: 23.52 -- 45.63 -- 1:08.86 -- 1:32.88 -- 1:57.16

Wrong Hirsch, that is the Santa Anita one. And not to be confused with the G2 by the same name that Zenyatta won earlier this year. The Clement Hirsch should be renamed the John Henry Turf Championship. It is idiocy to have two graded stakes named the Clement Hirsch and two Hirsch races run on the same day.

Okay that makes sense now, thanks.

....you should single me out....sorry, i was thinking she ran the 57 and change.....:o

The Clement Hirsch is run at Santa Anita.

The Joe Hirsch is run at Belmont.

Steve's talking about the Clement Hirsch.

Thanks Ateamstupid, Sniper beat you to the punch, really I should have figured it out myself.

so this race was on soft, or firm?

pavement

Here are the winning Beyer Speed Figures from last week's stakes races:

*Joe Hirsch Turf Classic International (Bel): Grand Couturier - GB (R. Ribaudo/A. Garcia) - 112
*Clement L. Hirsch Memorial Turf Championship (OSA): Red Giant (T. Pletcher/J. Velazquez) - 112

*Jockey Club Gold Cup (Bel): Curlin (S. Asmussen/R. Albarado) - 111
*Ancient Title (OSA): Cost of Freedom (J. Sadler/T. Baze) - 110

*Vosburgh (Bel): Black Seventeen (B. Koriner/C. Potts) - 108
*Kentucky Cup Sprint (TP): Fatal Bullet (R. Baker/E. Da Silva) - 108
*Lady's Secret (OSA): Zenyatta (J. Shireffs/M. Smith) - 108
*Delaware Certified (Del): Cayman Condo (S. Lake/R. Homeister Jr.) - 106
*Kelso (Bel): Tam Lin - GB (S. bin Suroor/J. Castellano) - 106
*Goodwood (OSA): Well Armed (E. Harty/A. Gryder) - 105
*Flower Bowl Invitational (Bel): Dynaforce (W. Mott/A. Garcia) - 104
*Hawthorne Gold Cup (Haw): Fairbanks (T. Pletcher/R. Migliore) - 104
*Morvich (OSA): California Flag (B. Koriner/J. Talamo) - 103
*Majestic Prince (Mth): Coal Play (N. Zito/J. Bravo) - 102
*Gallant Bob (Pha): Rollers (B. Tagg/M. Luzzi) - 101
*Oak Tree Mile (OSA): Hyperbaric (J. Canani/G. Gomez) - 100

*Beldame (Bel): Cocoa Beach - Chi (S. bin Suroor/R. Dominguez) - 99
*Kentucky Cup Classic (TP): Zanjero (S. Asmussen/S. Bridgmohan) - 99
*Red Diamond Express (NP): Cool Synsation (C. Anderson/R. Simard) - 97
*Dolly Jo (Crc): Slewfoundmoney (M. Wolfson/J. Santiago) - 97
*Yellow Ribbon (OSA): Wait a While (T. Pletcher/J. Velazquez) - 97
*All American (GG): Delightful Kiss (P. Anderson/C. Borel) - 96
*Ontario Derby (WO): Sand Cove (R. Attfield/R. Dos Ramos) - 96
*Robert F. Carey Memorial (Haw): Wise River (C. Hanna/F. Torres) - 96
*Judy's Red Shoes (Crc): Ashley River (D. Brownlee/P. Lopez) - 95
*Avowal (WO): Saskawea (S. Attard/J. Jones) - 95
*Turf Amazon (Pha): Sheets (A. Goldberg/R. Alvarado Jr.) - 95
*Capital Request (Crc): Silver Envoy (K. Ziadie/J. Leyva) - 94
*Pine Tree Lane (OSA): Tizzy's Tune (R. McAnally/A. Solis) - 94
*Kentucky Cup Distaff (TP): Bear Now (R. Baker/E. Da Silva) - 93
*La Lorgnette (WO): Sugar Bay (M. Benson/C. Sutherland) - 92
*Indian Maid (Haw): Ciao (F. Kirby/I. Karlsson) - 91
*Beaufort (NP): Cool Ventura (C. Anderson/R. Simard) - 91
*J. R. Straus Memorial (Ret): Sumfun (W. Calhoun/B. Walker Jr.) - 91
*H.P.B.A. (PID): Afleet Angel (P. Bacon/W. Lozano Jr.) - 90
*Needles (Crc): Smooth Air (B. Stutts Jr./M. Cruz) - 90
*Floral Park (Bel): Wishful Tomcat (G. Contessa/R. Dominguez) - 90

*Regal Rumor (Haw): Palanka City (T. Gestes/C. Emigh) - 89
*Hey Baba Lulu (Bel): You Go West Girl (T. Proctor/E. Prado) - 89
*Monmouth Park NATC Futurity (Colts Div.) (Mth): Forty Thieves (S. Klesaris/R. Mojica Jr.) - 88
*Salute Me Sir (Bel): Lorccan (J. Ferraro/J. Sanchez) - 88
*Oak Leaf (OSA): Stardom Bound (C. Paasch/M. Smith) - 87
*Gottstein Futurity (EmD): Gallant Son (F. Lucarelli/L. Mawing) - 86
*Norfolk (OSA): Street Hero (M. Cho/A. Solias) -86
*Dr. Ernest Benner (CT): Russell Road (J. Casey/L. Perez) - 86
*Oklahoma Classics Sprint (RP): Steal Your Face (K. Craddock/F. Wethey Jr.) - 85
*Oklahoma Classics Turf (RP): Strategic Leader (R. Mitchell/B. Landeros) - 85
*Kentucky Cup Juvenile (TP): West Side Bernie (K. Breen/S. Elliott) - 85
*Pleasant Temper (KD): My Baby Baby (K. McPeek/M. Mena) - 84
*First State Dash (Del): Afleet Aussie (T. Ritchey/J. Lopez) - 83
*Brave Raj (Crc): Renda (J. Arias/S. Madrid) - 83
*Alberta Breeders' (NP): Teagues Fight (D. MacDonald/S. Heiler) - 83
*Delaware Certified Distaff (Del): Hungarian Boatbaby (A. Dutrow/J. Rocco Jr.) - 82
*Mackinac (Pnl): Bishop Casey (R. Gorham/T. Molina) - 81
*Kentucky Cup Juvenile Fillies (TP): Sugar Mom (W. Catalano/M. Aguilar) - 80