Derby Trail Forums

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   Stakes Archive (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   8/15 (SAR): Sword Dancer Invitational S. (G1) (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31191)

Kasept 08-12-2009 04:19 PM
8/15 (SAR): Sword Dancer Invitational S. (G1)
 
10th (5:47) Sword Dancer Invitational S. (G1)

1 1/2 Miles (Inner turf) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $500,000

1 Grand Couturier (GB) Garcia Alan 120 L
2 Gentleman Chester Leparoux J R 116 L
3 Lauro (GER) Chavez J F 118 L
4 Better Talk Now Dominguez R A 116 L
5 Rising Moon Desormeaux K J 116 L
6 Americain Velazquez J R 118 FTL
7 Telling Castellano J J 116 L
8 Quijano (GER) Starke A 123
9 Brass Hat Borel C H 116 L
10 Musketier (GER) Jones J 116 L

randallscott35 08-12-2009 04:28 PM
I must say watching Garcia day in and day out, he is right now the best grass jockey in the country. Not even close.

declansharbor 08-12-2009 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
I must say watching Garcia day in and day out, he is right now the best grass jockey in the country. Not even close.

Couldnt agree more. His ride on Tahoe Warrior today was phenominal. Any other rider, and I chalk it up as a loss when he was dropping back and losing ground to the stalkers. Saved enough gas in the tank to re-rally for the win.

randallscott35 08-12-2009 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by declansharbor
Couldnt agree more. His ride on Tahoe Warrior today was phenominal. Any other rider, and I chalk it up as a loss when he was dropping back and losing ground to the stalkers. Saved enough gas in the tank to re-rally for the win.
If people have an ROI on Garcia on the turf at the SPA meet I would say it would be in the 10 to 14 range.

NTamm1215 08-12-2009 04:44 PM
Garcia has gotten very, very good on the grass but Leparoux came back in the 9th with a pretty flawless ride of his own.

NT

parsixfarms 08-12-2009 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
I must say watching Garcia day in and day out, he is right now the best grass jockey in the country. Not even close.
At a minimum, Dominguez and Maragh are in the conversation (and as much as I hate to say it, Desormeaux, too), and they may be even better.

Bobby Fischer 08-12-2009 05:18 PM
just starting to notice that Maragh might be the best if you have the horse with the most kick

RockHardTen1985 08-12-2009 05:28 PM
There is no way to name a best... Ramon, Kent, Maragh, Julian and Garcia are all very very good. This is a great colony.

declansharbor 08-12-2009 05:31 PM
No Robby Albarado?!? and just think if your man Stew Elliot was there.

:rolleyes:

Bobby Fischer 08-12-2009 06:05 PM
looks like Pletch has a BC Marathoner hopeful in Americain.

The Indomitable DrugS 08-12-2009 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
If people have an ROI on Garcia on the turf at the SPA meet I would say it would be in the 10 to 14 range.
Dollars? That would be just about impossible.

He's now 36-9-2-3 on grass this meet - with a $3.32 ROI.

randallscott35 08-12-2009 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Dollars? That would be just about impossible.

He's now 36-9-2-3 on grass this meet - with a $3.32 ROI.
Thank you. 9 for 36 on the grass is awesome considering how full the fields are at Toga. I guess he's hit with lower priced horses than I thought. Still a terrific ROI.

eajinabi 08-12-2009 09:12 PM
Probably a better ROI is Linda Rice for Turf Sprints at SAR

VOL JACK 08-12-2009 09:30 PM
Ive really been watching Garcia closely on the turf this meet.
He almost always saves as much ground as possible. Then at the top of the stretch he get his horse in a position offf of the rail where he has options- Rail run, split horses, angle outside.

RockHardTen1985 08-12-2009 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOL JACK
Ive really been watching Garcia closely on the turf this meet.
He almost always saves as much ground as possible. Then at the top of the stretch he get his horse in a position offf of the rail where he has options- Rail run, split horses, angle outside.
Garcia is really good, but Ramon always seems to be in the right spot.

Bobby Fischer 08-13-2009 02:54 PM
Grand Couturier and Rising Moon

lemoncrush 08-13-2009 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985
Garcia is really good, but Ramon always seems to be in the right spot.
I agree..as was the case last weekend with Gio Ponti. Sure, he had the best horse, but it was a perfectly timed move. I had to watch the replay to how he even got the lead, because it seemed to happen in an instant.

randallscott35 08-13-2009 05:08 PM
That would be 2 more grass wins today and he didn't even have a mount in the feature. Garcia is nasty.

the_fat_man 08-13-2009 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemoncrush
Gio Ponti. Sure, he had the best horse, but it was a perfectly timed move. I had to watch the replay to how he even got the lead, because it seemed to happen in an instant.


The 'got the jump on them' style of trip handicapping firmly on display. :rolleyes:

A poorly judged move by Ramon (though to that point, he sat a perfect inside drafting trip). Of course, he's probably not familiar with that long stretch run at AP.

Coach Pants 08-13-2009 05:52 PM
Why is Brass Hat not running on dirt? Sheesh.

freddymo 08-13-2009 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Pants
Why is Brass Hat not running on dirt? Sheesh.

While I am a huge proponent of geldings running time they justy dont wish to compete anymore....Why is Brass Hat running period?

NTamm1215 08-13-2009 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
While I am a huge proponent of geldings running time they justy dont wish to compete anymore....Why is Brass Hat running period?
We had a similar conversation about this horse in April. First this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedagogue Ann
Poor old Brass Hat. He used to be one of the best dirt horses in the world (see Donn H and Dubai World Cup finishes). Hasn't been the same since he came back from Dubai and the last couple of injuries. I realize he is the only Big Horse in a small stable and they want him to still be a stakes horse but he may not have it anymore. I've loved him since he won the Rushaway as a maiden (had him in the CITGO/Pick 6 contest), I just hope he will come out of this race safe and with some dignity intact.
Then this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
Enough... You're so preposterous and full of crap that I can't help myself any more. Some dignity? If you actually had any real interest or knowledge or watched the races, you might actually have noted his wide rallying try in the Munoz last out beaten less than two lengths by Proudinsky and Nownownow that earned a 97 Beyer, his best yet on the lawn in his 6th grass race.

He hasn't been the same since he came back from Dubai? You mean other than winning the '07 Mass Cap (98 Beyer); running a just-missed second in the '07 Clark (102 Beyer); a 4th beaten 3L in the '08 Donn (102 Beyer); and mid-90 Beyer 3rds-5ths in 5 graded stakes since the Donn? In the actual real racehorse world, he is the EXACT same horse more or less at 8 as he was at 6 and 7.

I'll let Buff Bradley know how concerned you are about his family and the gelding's dignity. Brass Hat looks terrific and Bradley said hours ago he expects a big effort in the Elkhorn.
He happened to run a very competitive third in the Elkhorn then won the Louisville Handicap after that. I think he's still got a little bit in him and wouldn't be surprised to see him hit the board on Saturday.

NT

Coach Pants 08-13-2009 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTamm1215



He happened to run a very competitive third in the Elkhorn then won the Louisville Handicap after that. I think he's still got a little bit in him and wouldn't be surprised to see him hit the board on Saturday.

NT
I agree. It's really a horrible bunch for a G1.

Bobby Fischer 08-13-2009 06:49 PM
any opinions of Gentleman Chester? I'm not sure what to think about his last race. leaning towards not impressed.

the_fat_man 08-13-2009 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTamm1215
He happened to run a very competitive third in the Elkhorn then won the Louisville Handicap after that. I think he's still got a little bit in him and wouldn't be surprised to see him hit the board on Saturday.

NT
He's just one of many horses (C types) that need to make the last move in a collapsing race to win. Problem, for him, and the others, is that he rarely gets a race where he's the only one with this style. Then it becomes a matter of racing luck and when in the flow sequence his jock moves him.

NTamm1215 08-13-2009 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
He's just one of many horses (C types) that need to make the last move in a collapsing race to win. Problem, for him, and the others, is that he rarely gets a race where he's the only one with this style. Then it becomes a matter of racing luck and when in the flow sequence his jock moves him.
It is a multi-faceted race from a pace standpoint but I can see Lauro and Musketier setting an honest pace and if Borel is good at anything it's falling into the right suck-up trip.

I have been among the biggest detractors of Grand Couturier but he's been positioned perfectly for this race and may have run a better race than it looked last time out.

NT

the_fat_man 08-14-2009 09:18 AM
Attfield has been absolutely on fire in stakes races recently. I think that Musketier has a very significant advantage here and could very easily control the race, IF ridden correctly. Jones rode a very strategic race against Mission Approved up at WO (chart is wrong for that race: TRAKUS malfunction) and I see no reason why he can't do the same here. Let Lauro go and, I'm sure Kent will probably have something to say early as well. Jones need only sit behind them and take it away when ready. Probably won't happen this way as Jones is another one of the many WO premature move idiots, and he'll probably do his best to collapse the race for one of the plodders. But if he's value, I'll take a shot.

SOREHOOF 08-14-2009 06:46 PM
Win races.. get better horses.. win more races.. get even better horses! Kirian doesn't hurt. The kid is good. No doubt left!

SOREHOOF 08-14-2009 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOL JACK
Ive really been watching Garcia closely on the turf this meet.
He almost always saves as much ground as possible. Then at the top of the stretch he get his horse in a position offf of the rail where he has options- Rail run, split horses, angle outside.
I meant to put this in my previous post.

SOREHOOF 08-14-2009 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
Attfield has been absolutely on fire in stakes races recently. I think that Musketier has a very significant advantage here and could very easily control the race, IF ridden correctly. Jones rode a very strategic race against Mission Approved up at WO (chart is wrong for that race: TRAKUS malfunction) and I see no reason why he can't do the same here. Let Lauro go and, I'm sure Kent will probably have something to say early as well. Jones need only sit behind them and take it away when ready. Probably won't happen this way as Jones is another one of the many WO premature move idiots, and he'll probably do his best to collapse the race for one of the plodders. But if he's value, I'll take a shot.
I like him too. Not real sure of his quality but this isn't that tough of a field.

odbaxter 08-14-2009 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
Attfield has been absolutely on fire in stakes races recently. I think that Musketier has a very significant advantage here and could very easily control the race, IF ridden correctly. Jones rode a very strategic race against Mission Approved up at WO (chart is wrong for that race: TRAKUS malfunction) and I see no reason why he can't do the same here. Let Lauro go and, I'm sure Kent will probably have something to say early as well. Jones need only sit behind them and take it away when ready. Probably won't happen this way as Jones is another one of the many WO premature move idiots, and he'll probably do his best to collapse the race for one of the plodders. But if he's value, I'll take a shot.

Wow!!! Excuse me but Jono is anything but a premature idiot.

-"Perfect Shower ($95.30) pulled off a shocking upset under jockey Jono Jones in the 119th running of the $503,200 Breeders Stakes, the third leg of the Canadian Triple Crown at Woodbine Sunday." By Ron Gierkink

-partnered 2005 Sovereign Award finalist (Top Turf Male) Jambalaya to win the Breeders' Stakes and the Grade 3 Saranac Stakes at Saratoga. Should have won the Arlington Million (dropped for Albarado)

What more of an angle then proven at Saratoga?


I'm all in!

the_fat_man 08-14-2009 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by odbaxter
Wow!!! Excuse me but Jono is anything but a premature idiot.

-"Perfect Shower ($95.30) pulled off a shocking upset under jockey Jono Jones in the 119th running of the $503,200 Breeders Stakes, the third leg of the Canadian Triple Crown at Woodbine Sunday." By Ron Gierkink

-partnered 2005 Sovereign Award finalist (Top Turf Male) Jambalaya to win the Breeders' Stakes and the Grade 3 Saranac Stakes at Saratoga. Should have won the Arlington Million (dropped for Albarado)

What more of an angle then proven at Saratoga?


I'm all in!
Rather than quoting someone else, how about watching that race? You might actually then be able to formulate your own opinion. The horse won in spite of Jones. Which makes what Attfield has done up there recently all the more remarkable.

Bobby Fischer 08-15-2009 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
I think that Musketier has a very significant advantage here and could very easily control the race, IF ridden correctly. Jones rode a very strategic race against Mission Approved up at WO (chart is wrong for that race: TRAKUS malfunction) and I see no reason why he can't do the same here.
It could certainly go that way. None of these want to do too much running. Americain is very important, and if he is well bet and ends up pressing outside it adds enough value to others to use three horses. Grand Couturier is the strongest closer here at this distance, his last was good enough comparatively to like him in this field. Rising Moon is the most interesting at 12-1. Desormeaux may be more even more likely than Jones to try to "get the jump", but if he doesn't I think he has a pretty good horse. MOON's had his problems, he finally took off the aluminum pads and ran ok in the Suburban. With Quijano/Starke FINALLY drawing outside a bit maybe there will be some room on the rail;). Best case scenario Rising Moon is boxed in and holds of Couturier , maybe your boy Musketier

Bobby Fischer 08-15-2009 03:46 PM
No, forget Rising Moon.
He has little (to no) chance unless he makes a significant change in mechanics today in the stretch which I have no reason to suspect. Wonder if Dutrow/Desormeaux are even aware...

Musketier looking better, Grand Couturier still looking good. Nothing really that interesting to me in betting although I still think that Americain can be beat and he could still be heavily backed.

Bobby Fischer 08-15-2009 04:42 PM
for a 10 horse field that doesn't have an obvious standout, the odds really suck here. Grand Couturier and Musketier are both about where they should be. The only real nice value bet in the WPS is Musketier to show as he is currently 7th choice with 8 min to post. Show betting is pretty taboo anyway. :rolleyes:

1 with 6,8,10 in the exacta isn't terrible either but nothing to go bananas about.

boooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Sightseek 08-15-2009 04:54 PM
Telling?!?~!

DaTruth 08-15-2009 04:58 PM
His races at longer distances weren't that bad, and he usually finished strongly in his races. He didn't exactly face the toughest field in the Sword Dancer either.

Bobby Fischer 08-15-2009 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTruth
His races at longer distances weren't that bad, and he usually finished strongly in his races. He didn't exactly face the toughest field in the Sword Dancer either.
yea he looked like he could close for 2nd or 3rd if everything went his way, but did he race close up? just behind Quijano? Hard to tell on the xpressbet feed. That I didn't expect.

- Yea he started out an unexpected close up 4th to a collapsing pace. huh...

horrible ride by desormeaux on Moon but he didn't have any horse and he doesn't want to stay on his right lead in the stretch.

Coach Pants 08-15-2009 05:04 PM
He was just behind the front 4.

I had 10 across on him. A Suffolk chump that one the finale yesterday convinced me the locals are kinda garbage this year.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:23 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.