This Upsets Me, What About You?
 

Today I was listening to a local talk radio station. They had someone on who is from the Learn and Earn Program, which is a group that is helping spearhead the ballot in the upcoming election to allow slots at Ohio Racetracks. She started out talking about our two local tracks, of course those are Beulah Park and Scioto Downs. Beulah is privately owned and Scioto is now owned by Mountaineer Gaming, they purchased Scioto I believe 2 years ago. She talked about the 200 Million dollars in improvements the owner and management of Beulah plan to put in place. Those include a nice hotel, covered parking and of course some nice restaurants. She did not go into detail about the improvements at Scioto, but did give mention, thank goodness, to the improvement in purses for the Horsemen. On to what upsets me.

A good portion of the revenue they will be receiving from slots will be going to a program so that many a college student will not have to pay tuition. She mentioned an example of how they would like to see in the future a 4 year students tuition expense at least cut in half. She then went on about how too many college graduates are forced to live almost in poverty as they stuggle to pay their college loans. Now, what upsets me is this..............

Since when are we, the Ohio Taxpayers, responsible for footing the bill for all these college students? Granted, not everyone plays the slots but I cant help but think that they will be dipping into other gambling revenue as well, i.e. Horse Racing. even if they don't dip into the Horse Racing money pool, why should the slot revenue go to what ultimately is the college students and parents responsibility? Welcome to life in the real world. Maybe your parents should have thought twice before buying that $200,000 home they could not afford. Maybe they should not have driven those brand new SUV's and Toyota Camry's they could hardly afford. Maybe you should have thought twice before you bought little Johnny that $15,000 Mustang when he turned 16. That $15,000 would put a great dent in that tuition.

I know there are under privaledged kids out there who bust their tail thru school who are in a home life where the parents can't afford to put them in college. I agree that they deserve some help. But for me to think that their is a program out there that wants to help EVERY single college student with revenue from slots, that burns me. That is not the slot players responsibilty. That is not the taxpayers responsibility. That is not the Horse Players responsibility. That is the parents and college students. Maybe once that college student graduates and has to think about paying on that loan, maybe instead of going out and buying a new car and getting married and having two kids that they could go out and buy a nice used car for a thousand or two and live in a modest apartment paying on that loan. Not too mention not having any kids till they are financially sound.

But no, the public is going to help carry that burden.

Anybody feel what I am trying to convey here?

Don't Steal - The Gubment Hates The Competition
 

I think you are trying to say socialism sucks.

The long and short of it is. Without a promise to help out "education" they get no slots.

However, promising to do good with the new tax revenue is not the same as actually doing good with it. Here in the People's Republic of Illinois. They promised to put the money from the State lottery to education. It does go to education. They just stopped taking the money form the general fund. Net gain zero.

That's sorta the way the United Way does their bit. I can ask that all the money I would donate go to the Boy Scouts and NOT to Planned Parenthood. So they take the amount I gave to the Boy Scouts and subtract other money that was going to them.. and then give that money to Planned Parenthood.

I think that getting slots will help Buelah. The purses will go up, the quality of the races will go up and the Twins can get even more attention.

Ummm NO..I completely disagree with your opinion.

can you elaborate? because right now I have an opinion, but I want to hear others so I can think this over more and determine if maybe I am looking at this wrong.

Curt,
Here in NY, millions are made on people that buy "scratch off" tickets and lottery. The money raised is supposed to go towards education.
Yeah, right. I still get a huge school tax bill.
Seems to me that the people that take chances (gamblers) are the "suckers" that get exploited. Sorry, but the "powers that be" use whatever they can to raise revenue. We are easy.
Should the state fund free college education to everyone? I don't think so.
I commuted so that I could get my bachelors, then commuted some more for my masters. Did anyone pay my way? No.
I worked a job after classes, worked summers, and lived on hot dogs and macaroni.
I set my goals and worked hard to reach them.
Taking money from gamblers is bogus. I agree that the gamblers of Ohio aren't being treated fairly. Do those that receive the funding appreciate it?
Your guess is as good as mine.
DTS

playing the slots is like playing the lottery...it's a volunteer tax. so this isn't a burden the public will carry, only those who decide to go play the slots.

i'm not a fan of socialism, i guess you could say this is somewhat socialistic....but anything that gets more kids a degree is a good thing. so whatever bad may outweigh the good.

problem is, any time funds are found for education in one spot, they generally take it away elsewhere. so education never gets ahead.
don't want to pay for a kids college? i guess you could choose not to play the slots.
besides, she said she'd 'like to see' it paid. not a done deal. i wouldn't get worked up over something that might not even occur.

I think I'm with wayne here...we have the same lottery percentage in VT that goes to education and yet my school tax is still 2.38/100$.
At 30 I am still looking down the barrel of 10 more years of student loan payments. While in school I worked a near 40 hour work week and basically went without. My parents did not contribute to my education after the first year of school. Like wayne, I think it is completely within reason to expect that people can do for themselves...
Also in VT they are initiating a scholarship program, that forgives tuition provided that students remain in the state upon graduation to prevent "brain drain" that occurs often around here due to the high cost of living and limited job opportunities.
I don't think you guys are getting a good deal .

Man, I hate slot machines and see no evidence they're good for horse racing. Does anyone really believe the horses running at Mountaineer (or CharlesTown or whereever) are better than they were 25 years ago? The top guys at Mountaineer go to Chicago and Kentucky and get a bunch of nickel claimers by claim or purchase and they win at the Mount right away.

I lump the lottery in with slot machines. Does anyone see any improvement in their schools due to lottery proceeds? No, the money just goes in the general fund, no matter what the pols tell you.

The dirty little secret about slot machines and the lottery are that they are huge tax revenues gained from the spending of low-income people. They should know better, but they don't.

Pais and S2S,
You both said what I was trying to say, only you both said it better.
Thanks.
Ain't no free ride.
Bettors take it on the chin all the time. We're much more available.
DTS

So well said. I worked a 40 hour a week job all thru my college years as well. My 2 days off in the Spring, Winter and Fall I could be found in class or the library. My parents paid half of my tuition and the books, I was responsible for the other half. No doubt this affects my perception of this because as I slaved away at my job here were these other students driving brand new cars and not working one minute. A little bitter yes I am but I still don't see why a gambler should be responsible for helping a student with their college tuition. A little towards that sure but not the amount they are talking, no way no how.

STS so true as well about Mountaineer and their purse structure and the Horse Stock.

I am not bitter per say, just to clarify. I am very proud of what I achieved during my college years, very proud.

Volunteer tax or not, this would just be another tax funded benefit that won't help me a bit. For that matter, I don't think K thru 12 education should be a freebie.

I have to admit some bitterness towards the 'silver sperm' crowd but more than that I don't feel like some of these programs end up benefitting those individuals that they target in the first place. If the money is meant to aid education it should be applied to the primary and secondary schools before going to college aid--unless it carries some stipulations like the program in VT so that the state is also benefitting long term.

Interesting thought. What about the 5 year old child of a single mother wih limited or zero income? Or foster children or those kids living in orphanages? What shall we do with these children?

Pete,
I'm not sure I agree with you on that. Having educated people benefits us all.
K-12 education is expensive, but considering the alternative (ignorance) and the costs to maintain it, I'm in favor of education.
As far as college education, seems to me that if you earn it, you appreciate it more. It worked that way for me.
Looking for "hand-outs" via fleecing the gambling public might gain some points with the ones that share the church pews, but I don't think it's the way to go.
So, let's fund the public schools and support higher education through Pell, and other scholarship programs. No "free rides".
If they want it, they'll earn it, and pay back later.
We'll all win that way.
DTS

The poor will always get their freebies, education included. But a small fee for education would still be the best bargain anyone will ever get. Around here people buy elementary students cell phones, designer clothes, and all the electronic garbage a kid could ever want. They have cable and HBO and take atleast one vacation a year. They keep up with the Joneses when it comes to houses and vehicles. Most eat out four or five nights a week.

But if you tried to charge them $100 a year per student, they'd scream bloody murder. I'm just saying it's time we pulled our weight and get our priorities in order.

Pete,
I agree with you on that.
Seems to me that if those folks can afford all that, they should be able to afford the other.
Priorities do need to be put in order...and not on the backs of the gaming public.
Heck, we tax payers already pay for baby food and juice through the WIC program, right?
It's time to leave the horse bettors alone.
DTS

Right. My point all along is since when are the parents and the college student who is of adult legal age (18) not responsible for the cost incurred during their college years? The parents, in all honesty, if they were financially sound, would have saved for their child / childrens education. Not all parents are that lucky / fortunate, and those kids need some assistance. But since when should the gaming public be taxed (might be a bad choice of words, taxed) in a sense for those college students who can afford their higher education? That money, in my opinion, is better spent elsewhere, say for example improving our K-12 programs, law enforcement, programs to help troubled youth etc.. Our lottery system in the State of Ohio is the same apparently as other states. One look at my paycheck, one look at how much I owe the school district I live in come tax time is enough to make me ask the begging question -

I see people buying scratch offs and lottery tickets every day. You can even go on Ohio Lottery's website (google it and see) and they tell you how much money was taken in on the Pick 3, Pick 4 etc.. Where is all this money going? Is the appropriate % going to the schools? Meanwhile folks are getting taxed by their respective school district like crazy every year. Especially property taxes in some areas.

What is going on?

Did you know that Cuba's, yes Cuba's, college education is free for everyone? Yet, the United States is the richest country in the world. The federal government has cut down on half the money used for Pell Grants and other aids for college students recently. Do you know why? Because, it has been estimated by the time that these wars (the War on Terror, on Afganistan, and on Iraq) are over with they are going to end up costing a total of 2 trillion dollars. Do you know the good things we could do with two trillion dollars? We could have helped the victims of Katrina, or got the homeless off the streets, or had free health coverage for all...

The United States government, as a whole, doesn't value education at all. Yet, education does run this country. I want you all to think where we would be without those people who have graduated from college. No doctors, no nurses, no scientists, no stock brokers, no computer technicians...etc. Well, we're certainly headed in that direction because it is becomming harder and harder to get an education. Look at the overwhelming shortage of nurses for example. Tuition is rising and federal aid programs are being completely cut or drastically reduced. Without education, we would not be industrialized. Therefore, we would most likely be under the rule of a dictator.

We are living in the jungle folks. Yes, the jungle. These are "dangerous and challenging times". It's called capitalism, and it is going to be what inevitably destroys us; "everyone looking out for themselves" and "everone in competition with one another." There is no sense of community here. "It's do onto others before they do onto you" or "looking out for number one." When Americans' tax money goes into giving others a so-called "free ride" that benefits society as a whole, they get angry. We should be helping others, not trying to beat them. The way we are living now reminds me of Thomas Hobb's "state of nature" theory, only more civil. Members of a society are "killing" and "hurting" the other members of that same society financially. This empire, like all great empires, will inevitably fall too.

Quite frankly, I would much rather my tax money be spent on education than going to wars that we can't win. You can't FORCE democracy upon another country! Just look at Iraq. Hussein was a terrible person and a tyrant indeed, but he controlled those people over there. It wasn't in chaotic ruins like it is now. You didn't have bombs killing hundreds and thousands of people . A firm dictatorship was the only thing that worked for them. The reason that democracy won't be established in Iraq is because some of the people don't want it as they have displayed by planting explosive devices in churches and on streets. How do you beat suicide bombers? Also, Iraq is not industrialized and is in economic ruins. It has been proven time and time again throughout history, that democracy can't and won't be established until the largest class of people are the middle class in terms of economic standing. Therefore, education, wealth, cars, radios, and businesses must first be well established throughout the people. Iraq will only become a democracy when it is ready too, not because the White House thinks that it can force it.

Yes, I would rather my money go to the homeless, or to those who risk there lives serving our country, or the widows and children of those who lost their lives serving this country, or to natural disaster aid programs than into the pockets of greedy Congressmen that said, "Iraq needs democracy!" Yeah, right. I have a message to the White House, "Not very many Americans are buying into that anymore."

Wouldn't having more people who were college educated benefit society as a whole? It's just something to think about.

Jessica--I completely agree with your opinion here and your point is well made.

You should post it under it's own thread as I am sure it would invoke the ire of one bold B.

Thanks. Should I post it under Paddock or under off topic? I won't be able to get into a debate about it tonight because I have to go to VA, but I'll be back on here tomorrow.

Jessica, that's a good post. And I would never want to keep anyone from a good education. But a totally free ride isn't the answer. Or do you think everything is just swell down in Cuba? There's a lot to be said for good faith money. You will put greater value on an education you've worked for over an education that was just handed to you. There is a middle ground that will be the most beneficial.

Cuba is paradise... that is why so many people are getting on little make shift rafts and leaving Florida to get there.



:rolleyes:

funny.

I guess I should have clarified when I said that I agreed with her that I like the ideas behind it, NOT that cuba and it's dictatorship is the way to go. Socialist/communist states allow access to free education but do not offer an unbiased education. The difference is important.

still it's a good post.

Then why do people make As in free public schools? The people who are going to try are going to try and the people who aren't just simply aren't. You have to work for an education anyway. If you don't, you fail. If you fail, you don't get the degree. I work and take five classes. I have bills to pay. It is very hard, and my learning is often inhibited because of my work. I am not eligible for government money because my parents make too much. I can't go to the schools I want to. Nope, no Harvard or Duke for me. Luckily, I've gotten private scholarships. It is the only way that I am making it. There are tons of people who aren't. If your parent is a nurse who makes an average of about 40,000 a year, you can't get Pell Grants. The household income for being eligible for money is very, very low. You have to be dirt poor in order to receive one. There are tons of people who would love to go to college, but can't afford it. One of my friends got turned down for a Pell Grant, and so she had to keep working.

No, not everything is swell in Cuba. The U.S. has had an economic blockade on Cuba for decades because Cubais a big threat to us. Their taxes are high and their property is high, but education and health coverage are free. Their literacy rate is 99%. Ours is 92%. I agree that the way Cuba does things wouldn't work here in the U.S. and that the U.S. is a better country overall. For one we are a democracy. Yet, the U.S. may could learn a few things from Cuba. I never implied that we should be like Cuba. I just stated the fact that they have free education and high taxes.

Marx's theory explains how all capitalist countries eventually turn into socialists countries. It's something that you all should look up if you don't already know about it. I don't have time to get into it because I have to go. Good night everyone. Some good points have been made by everyone!

i've read it, thanks.

Where did I imply that the U.S. should be like Cuba? I just stated that they were a poor economic country who had free education. They are a dictatorship for christ sakes. The fact was used to make a point.

I figured that most have. :) One last question: Do you think that I implied that the U.S. should be like Cuba in my post? If so, I didn't mean it that way. I just thought that it enhanced my arguement. :D

Did you know that if you go to Cuba and sell anything (even an aspirin) to them...you could go to prison and pay enormous fines? Why is that? I'm directing that at everyone Pais, not just you. I want to know because I don't know why the U.S. put an economic blockade on them.

"you didn't have bombs killing hundreds and thousands of people" - Jessica

Your right hun....Saddam killed PLENTY more than hundreds or thousands that didn't agree with him....10,000+ at the hands of one man.

"A firm dictartorship was the only thing that worked for them" - Jessica

You call that "working for them"????.....ooooooooookay. Stick with all your horse conformation stuff, or judging, or whatever....cause politics...it ain't your thing kiddo.

not really. though you leave yourself open for the firing squad by equating positive attributes to what is known to be an awful dictatorship...

economic sanctions and political embargoes w/communist countries are NOT my area of expertise...nor is history so you'll have to get the big questions answered elsewhere. (I'm pretty sure I have a good idea but know someone else can answer better)

though you leave yourself open for the firing squad by equating positive attributes to what is known to be an awful dictatorship...



LOL....YA THINK?????

Then why didn't we stop Saddam Hussein a long time ago? Why are we in Iraq now? All this negativety on this site towards me lately makes me not want to post on here anymore. Good night.

Jessica....so...because there where "no bombs killing hundreds and thousands" of people, you surely would have enjoyed living over in Iraq under Suddams dictatorship, right??? Your body fully covered from head to toe...told when and where to speak...being treated worse than a second class citizen because your a women????? Surely you would like to rethink your statements??

Im not trying to be negative by any means.....especially towards a woman. I was raised better than that. I just find some of your thoughts and posts...umm...shocking to say the least....but you are entitled to your opinion hun, that is for sure.

how bout them slots:rolleyes:

just shakin it up a little:rolleyes:

there has been some great conversation on this thread and i am glad it has stayed civil all thru. some great intellectual conversations amoungst men and women alike, i think i mispelled something and i am too tired to use caps lock right now fyi:cool:

Ok....I VERY RARELY talk politics on this board and I just met this years quota in 3 or 4 threads....I'm done.

Pardon me but this is a ridiculous thing to get mad about and quite possibly the dumbest thing I ever read on this board.
Number 1) Its just a way to appease those who are against slot machines by sticking some of the money at education. fact is that they may hev been able to get the slots approved without the education/tuition rider and then noone would get the benefit.
Number 2) The "taxpayers" of Ohio aren't going to play those slot machines to support anyone. Everyone of the sickos who pull those levers are going there to try and win money!!! The fact that may lose and where the money goes is of little to no concern to them.
number 3) Yeah I suffered putting myself through school as well, and wish noone the misery of it. I don't think that just because I suffered and struggled to pay my way through that it means that others should have to. Its idiotic. Most students do far better in school with less financial strain.

So to sum it up in a very simple no bull**** manner, some sickies are gonna go to pull the levers hoping to win money. The sickies are gonna lose a lot more than they win. Some of what they lose will go to cut tuition costs so that students will have to pay less to get an education. Gee, that doesnt sound like something most people will lose sleep over tonight.

"the dumbest thing I have ever read on this board"

mike if i had a dollar for every time you have used that line i would have a couple hundred dollars to throw at some pick 4 this weekend:rolleyes:

Well since you wrote most of em you'd deserve the dollars!!!