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-   -   Republican plan to eliminate Medicare (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41701)

Riot 04-04-2011 12:11 PM
Republican plan to eliminate Medicare
 
The Republicans are going ahead with their plan to eliminate Medicare, having seniors pay for most of their own care, and in favor of giving that insurance business to private corporations.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Quote:
Mr. Ryan's proposal would apply to those currently under the age of 55, and for those Americans would convert Medicare into a "premium support" system. Participants from that group would choose from an array of private insurance plans when they reach 65 and become eligible, and the government would pay about the first $15,000 in premiums.
An interesting aside: why are the GOP so angry and against the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act subsidizing health insurance costs for some to purchase private policies, when it's exactly what they want to do with Medicare for everyone in the country?

GenuineRisk 04-04-2011 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 765985)
The Republicans are going ahead with their plan to eliminate Medicare, having seniors pay for most of their own care, and in favor of giving that insurance business to private corporations.

From the Wall Street Journal:



An interesting aside: why are the GOP so angry and against the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act subsidizing health insurance costs for some to purchase private policies, when it's exactly what they want to do with Medicare for everyone in the country?
So what this is saying is that those of us still working will continue to pay for the Medicare for the older folks, but when we turn 65, won't get anything ourselves?

Wow. I wasn't aware I was so selfless.

somerfrost 04-04-2011 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 766005)
So what this is saying is that those of us still working will continue to pay for the Medicare for the older folks, but when we turn 65, won't get anything ourselves?

Wow. I wasn't aware I was so selfless.
Thank you Genuine Risk, I appreciate it!

Riot 04-04-2011 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 766005)
So what this is saying is that those of us still working will continue to pay for the Medicare for the older folks, but when we turn 65, won't get anything ourselves?

Wow. I wasn't aware I was so selfless.
Don't worry - the Republicans are making sure that the insurance companies will get new business from this!

Quote:
April 4, 2011, 8:21 am
Paul Krugman- NYT
Privatizing Medicare

So they’re really going to propose it.

More when we have some details. But two key points:

1. Privatizing and voucherizing Medicare does nothing whatsoever to control costs. We’ve seen that from the sorry history of Medicare Advantage. I’m sure that the Republicans will claim savings — but those savings will come entirely from limiting the vouchers to below the rate of rise in health care costs; in effect, they will come from denying medical care to those who can’t afford to top up their premiums.

Oh, and for all those older Americans who voted GOP last year because those nasty Democrats were going to cut Medicare, I have just one word: suckers!

GenuineRisk 04-04-2011 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766010)
Thank you Genuine Risk, I appreciate it!
And your appreciation will keep me warm when I and the rest of what once was the middle class are eating cat food 20 years from now.

Oh wait, no it won't. We're f*cked. Thanks, GOP voters!

somerfrost 04-04-2011 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 766021)
And your appreciation will keep me warm when I and the rest of what once was the middle class are eating cat food 20 years from now.

Oh wait, no it won't. We're f*cked. Thanks, GOP voters!
Dog food is cheaper....if somehow I'm still around, I'll clip coupons for ya!

GenuineRisk 04-04-2011 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766032)
Dog food is cheaper....if somehow I'm still around, I'll clip coupons for ya!
Thanks, Somer; you're a real pal, but without dental care, I don't see how I'll be able to chew it.

somerfrost 04-04-2011 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 766087)
Thanks, Somer; you're a real pal, but without dental care, I don't see how I'll be able to chew it.
Stick to cans, you can gum it!

GenuineRisk 04-04-2011 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766088)
Stick to cans, you can gum it!
You're assuming I'll be able to afford a can opener.

somerfrost 04-04-2011 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 766092)
You're assuming I'll be able to afford a can opener.
A pointed rock?

Coach Pants 04-04-2011 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 766087)
Thanks, Somer; you're a real pal, but without dental care, I don't see how I'll be able to chew it.
Government doesn't subsidize dental.

GenuineRisk 04-04-2011 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 766095)
Government doesn't subsidize dental.
This is true. Nor do a lot of private health plans, as I'm reminded every time I pay for my checkup.

GenuineRisk 04-04-2011 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766094)
A pointed rock?
I think that's just going to dent the can, which will make the dog food spoil sooner.

somerfrost 04-04-2011 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 766099)
I think that's just going to dent the can, which will make the dog food spoil sooner.
You can buy small cans with a pop top so just pull the little ring and enjoy!

GenuineRisk 04-04-2011 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766101)
You can buy small cans with a pop top so just pull the little ring and enjoy!
Well, that would work. But you know, in the end, I'd rather have the same safety net I'm providing to your generation. If I had my choice, which it looks like I won't.

somerfrost 04-04-2011 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 766103)
Well, that would work. But you know, in the end, I'd rather have the same safety net I'm providing to your generation. If I had my choice, which it looks like I won't.
Republicans still need the Senate and White House....

Coach Pants 04-04-2011 04:32 PM
This is a no-win situation. Cuts need to be made but how severe? You can't get rid of medicare completely. It would be akin to the government putting crack cocaine in the ghetto and then removing it in 10 years.


The young working class of this country are basically paying for their parents and grandparents to live longer. Well with longer life comes expense. Most of us love our elders. We love them too much. They're killing us.

paulo537 04-04-2011 04:41 PM
End Medicare.

End Social Security.

If you're old and don't have sufficient means, your children take care of you.

If you have no children or if they won't or can't take care of you, then you go into the mountains or woods and lay down to die.

This is how things work in most of the world; why not here?

But this is America, so we should probably give them a pretty big bottle of strong narcotic pills to make their final journey more pleasant.

Indian Charlie 04-04-2011 04:44 PM
One could always take responsibility for their health, stop eating ****, stop taking meds and break away from our health care system entirely (except for traumas).

You know, kinda like how the human race used to exist until the last 75 years.

And don't give me that crap about how life expectancy has gone up due to drugs, vaccines, etc.

Coach Pants 04-04-2011 04:45 PM
Guesstimates...

Part A&B once you're paid in and not making over like 100k (I believe) the part B premium is $115/month 80% coverage...Medicare Supplement to cover the other 20% say worst cast $250/month.

If you told me, outside of prescription coverage, that I could get 100% paid-for health coverage for $365 a month I would do f.ucking cartwheels naked in the town square and jizz all over the war memorial each month.

No wonder why Medicare is broke.

somerfrost 04-04-2011 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 766118)
Guesstimates...

Part A&B once you're paid in and not making over like 100k (I believe) the part B premium is $115/month 80% coverage...Medicare Supplement to cover the other 20% say worst cast $250/month.

If you told me, outside of prescription coverage, that I could get 100% paid-for health coverage for $365 a month I would do f.ucking cartwheels naked in the town square and jizz all over the war memorial each month.

No wonder why Medicare is broke.
But Coach, you aren't retired with a fixed income of $1061 a month either.

Antitrust32 04-04-2011 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766121)
But Coach, you aren't retired with a fixed income of $1061 a month either.
nobody should retire if all they have to fall back on is Social Security. Their own fault.

Coach Pants 04-04-2011 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766121)
But Coach, you aren't retired with a fixed income of $1061 a month either.
Well if you're only drawing that much then you should have some sort of subsidy for prescriptions and, in certain cases, your part b premium subsidized as well.

I have an uncle who draws Low-income subsidy and all he pays are $2 for generics and $6 for name-brand drugs. Plus his part b premium is paid for and all hospital bills written off.

It's crazy.

somerfrost 04-04-2011 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 766123)
nobody should retire if all they have to fall back on is Social Security. Their own fault.
It's my fault because I got sick and was forced into early retirement? Believe me, I'd work if I could. and since I'm only 64, I get no insurance, meds and dr visits come out of my pocket. I'm not complaining, got it better than lots of folks but fact is not everything in life goes as one expects!

Antitrust32 04-04-2011 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766128)
It's my fault because I got sick and was forced into early retirement? Believe me, I'd work if I could. and since I'm only 64, I get no insurance, meds and dr visits come out of my pocket. I'm not complaining, got it better than lots of folks but fact is not everything in life goes as one expects!
being handicapped is different than choosing to retire. I'm all for supporting handicapped people who cant work.

But people who choose to retire with no money saved to plan for it, I dont have too much sympathy for.

jms62 04-04-2011 05:03 PM
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=U...urce=undefined

Hmmm. How much money did it take from Insurance lobbyists to buy the criminals (er politicos) that thought of this idea.

Coach Pants 04-04-2011 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 766131)
If you really want to be angry look at how the pharmaceutical companies made out on Dubya's MMA.

Antitrust32 04-04-2011 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 766131)
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=U...urce=undefined

Hmmm. How much money did it take from Insurance lobbyists to buy the criminals (er politicos) that thought of this idea.
I f-ing hate United Health Care.

Hmm I wonder why their stock is so high? Maybe because they significantly raised all their deductables so they have to pay out much less money?

jms62 04-04-2011 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 766133)
If you really want to be angry look at how the pharmaceutical companies made out on Dubya's MMA.
Dude I read this book.

http://www.amazon.com/Griftopia-Mach...1955058&sr=8-1

Any more angry and I will commit myself in fear of doing something that will embarass my family.

Riot 04-04-2011 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 766021)
And your appreciation will keep me warm when I and the rest of what once was the middle class are eating cat food ** 10 ** years from now.

Oh wait, no it won't. We're f*cked. Thanks, GOP voters!
FTFY

timmgirvan 04-04-2011 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766128)
It's my fault because I got sick and was forced into early retirement? Believe me, I'd work if I could. and since I'm only 64, I get no insurance, meds and dr visits come out of my pocket. I'm not complaining, got it better than lots of folks but fact is not everything in life goes as one expects!
Somer: you should look into SSDI! I did and am drawing enough to help out alot.......before that I was at the poverty level. I used Binder and Binder.

somerfrost 04-04-2011 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmgirvan (Post 766151)
Somer: you should look into SSDI! I did and am drawing enough to help out alot.......before that I was at the poverty level. I used Binder and Binder.
Timm, I looked pretty much at everything. If I get sick and the doctor puts me in the hospital (which happened dec 09), Medical Asst kicks in and pays most of the hospital bills, but otherwise, they say I make too much ($1061 a month is too much). I got IHEAP to help with heating bills and $16 a month in food stamps but otherwise nada. Like I said, I'm not complaining, other folks are far worse off, but I'm not driving around in a new caddy like some seem to think.

hi_im_god 04-04-2011 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmgirvan (Post 766151)
Somer: you should look into SSDI! I did and am drawing enough to help out alot.......before that I was at the poverty level. I used Binder and Binder.
my head just exploded.

i feel the way you would if you found out my dad was a pastor and paid all my bills. and i let him. while maintaing my staunch non-theist beliefs.

Riot 04-04-2011 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 766117)
One could always take responsibility for their health, stop eating ****, stop taking meds and break away from our health care system entirely (except for traumas).
Nobody can "break away from the healthcare system entirely", because wellness care and disease prevention are huge and important components which increase with age in the population.

That is, they are in other first-world countries where complete, real healthcare is affordable by the majority of the population. Not the US, of course, where we only put out healthcare fires, and rather inefficiently and expensively, for only some and not all.

Riot 04-04-2011 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 766107)
This is a no-win situation. Cuts need to be made but how severe? You can't get rid of medicare completely. It would be akin to the government putting crack cocaine in the ghetto and then removing it in 10 years.
Or, we could open up Medicare to everyone in the country. Let everyone buy in. The addition of 100 million healthy young people into the program would lower the costs for everyone, and increase the benefits.

timmgirvan 04-04-2011 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_god (Post 766156)
my head just exploded.

i feel the way you would if you found out my dad was a pastor and paid all my bills. and i let him. while maintaing my staunch non-theist beliefs.
if only...

Riot 04-04-2011 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_god (Post 766156)
my head just exploded.
.
Wow. Yes. Timmi, we never knew ya :eek:

Riot 04-04-2011 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 766154)
Timm, I looked pretty much at everything. If I get sick and the doctor puts me in the hospital (which happened dec 09), Medical Asst kicks in and pays most of the hospital bills, but otherwise, they say I make too much ($1061 a month is too much). I got IHEAP to help with heating bills and $16 a month in food stamps but otherwise nada. Like I said, I'm not complaining, other folks are far worse off, but I'm not driving around in a new caddy like some seem to think.
And that this type of thing can occur in "the richest country in the world" is appalling.

I don't want "the government" to "pay for freeloaders". But there are indeed ways for we citizens as a country - for our goverment - to make sure everyone in the country can purchase good, complete healthcare and pay their own way.

The Republicans want to do the opposite.

hi_im_god 04-04-2011 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmgirvan (Post 766160)
if only...
that won't actually happen but maybe i'll get esophageal cancer. apparently it's the aids of atheists.

Coach Pants 04-04-2011 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 766159)
Or, we could open up Medicare to everyone in the country. Let everyone buy in. The addition of 100 million healthy young people into the program would lower the costs for everyone, and increase the benefits.
I'd like to see some statistics on that pipe dream. The way Medicare is now it will only increase the abuse and cost.


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