Coa's ride in the FOY

[ateamstupid]

This, to me, is a way more egregious type of bad ride than any wide trip or burial down inside.

Overconfident jockeys are the worst. Coa doesn't do a thing on Elysium Fields until Cool Coal Man totally blows by him. Then the horse manages to re-rally and fall a neck short.

Leparoux used to do this all the time. You've got 11 horses behind you and you're only at the top of the stretch, ride your freaking horse!

For the record, I didn't bet the race, but I've been screwed by this kind of ride many a time.

[blackthroatedwind]

I just watched the race for about the fifth time and couldn't disagree more. Coa asked Elysium Fields before Cool Coal Man and Cool Coal Man simply blew by him top of the stretch. Because Cornelio may have asked for slightly more run, though I just think he accelerated faster, that one tired a bit and Elysium Fields, who was basically in a drive the last quarter mile, may have had a little more very late in the race. However, these horses have defined moves, and maybe Cool Coal Man used his before Elysium Fields, though more than likely what this really means is that Cool Coal Man accelerated faster when asked.

I have no problem with an argument that Elysium Fields ran a slightly better race, given the post positions, and Coa should be applauded for the ride he gave Elysium Fields.....not criticized needlessly because he road a horse that wasn't quite good enough yesterday to overcome the disadvantageous post position difference.

If Coa rides every horse as well as he rode Elysium Fields yesterday he may just make the slight leap necessary to become what is now considered an elite rider.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If Coa rides every horse as well as he rode Elysium Fields yesterday he may just make the slight leap necessary to become what is now considered an elite rider.

Slam!

[ateamstupid]

You watched a different race than I did then, Andy. I saw Coa riding like a statue until Cool Coal Man had all momentum going and had surged to the lead. Now maybe Coa's overconfidence was mitigated by Kent's early move, but Elysium Fields looked like he had flames shooting out of his ass once Coa got to work on him, which happened to be when he was already 3-4 lengths behind. You honestly think Tagg could have been happy with that ride?

[blackthroatedwind]

I watched the Fountain of Youth. Maybe Tagg isn't happy with whatever race you saw but I'm sure he was as happy as he ever is with the ride Elysium Fields got in the 9th race at Gulfstream on February 24th, 2008.

[ateamstupid]

Okay. You win. The ideal ride definitely entails allowing a horse to get a 3-4 length jump on you, THEN working on the horse enough to fall a neck short.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Okay. You win. The ideal ride definitely entails allowing a horse to get a 3-4 length jump on you, THEN working on the horse enough to fall a neck short.

Oh, the old " you win " defense. That always works with me.

If you think when another horse opens up on a rival is because one rider allowed it to happen then you and I see racing in a completely different manner.

Thus, to steal your plan of attack, you are right. It was a horrible ride. And, while we're at it, Gomez really blew it with Court Vision letting those horses get so far in front of him early. If he had just sat on the pace, with his closing kick, he would have won by ten.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You honestly think Tagg could have been happy with that ride?

According to DRF's Mike Welsch earlier tonight on ATR (4:30-5:00), based on his conversation with Tagg, the taciturn conditioner could not have been more pleased with the way everything went yesterday.

http://www.thoroughbredracingradione...y=25&Itemid=35

Hour One: Welsch

Hour Two: Haskin; Johnny D

Hour Three: Lauren Stich

[Bobby Fischer]

two good rides

Coa -Elysium Fields
-Bad post draw. - had to lean in aggressively and use a little horse to establish position early.
- had one of the best horses in the race
- wasn't able to relax or save ground
- got his horse to even-terms midway on the far turn
- finished in one of the top postions in the race

Desormeaux Cool Coal Man
- excellent position
- relaxed and did not chase leaders while saving ground (let coa go)
- excellent timing to "win" the race on the far turn
- finished in one of the top positions in the race

Everybody has to be happy , and from a wagering standpoint for the FOY it was inconsequential. If you noticed even one of the two was a win candidate you should have made money.

For the future, if both should compete in the Florida Derby, sure Elysium Fields is a slightly better animal, but it would be hard not to include both of them anyway.

[whodey17]

I thought Coa gave a good ride on the 9 horse yesterday. I had the 9 singled in the late pick 4 and wasnt a bit mad at the result. If anything, Coa could have looked over his shoulder to see if anyone was coming. But all in all Cool Coal Man blew by him. Then late in the race, the 9 had plenty left and got interested in running and Cool Coal Man got a little tired.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

And, while we're at it, Gomez really blew it with Court Vision letting those horses get so far in front of him early. If he had just sat on the pace, with his closing kick, he would have won by ten.

As usual you (eventually) get around to what's actually interesting about the race.


I look at the graph for the race and I see the TOP TWO were in the TOP FOUR all around the track. THEN, I notice Court Vision: last early and THE ONLY horse to make ANY KIND OF RUN (from off the pace).

So, I'm thinking that the TOP TWO got the best of the situation. Getting lucky is bad enough; thinking that you got skunked while getting lucky is yet another level.

As for Coa: when he's not sticking right handed while directly by the rail, he's typically MOVING TOO SOON. So, without even watching the replay, I find the notion that he WAITED TOO LONG a bit farfetched.

[ateamstupid]

So I guess the committee has decided that Elysium Fields re-rallied and almost ran down Cool Coal Man because of the latter getting tired, not because of horse that Coa didn't use earlier?

Fair enough. I saw it another way, and I've seen the same exact ride blow dozens of races.

[golfer]

It makes perfect sense that Tagg would be thrilled with yesterday's effort from Elysium Fields, stepping up from Maiden to runner up in the FOY. It's also likely that avoiding a neck and neck length of the stretch duel between he and Cool Coal Man will be better in the long run for both horses (remember a few years ago, Read the Footnotes and Second of June). In fact finishing 2nd as opposed to winning will have no effect on Elysium Fields future progress (other than earnings to get into the Derby). Tagg has bigger fish to fry down the road.
However, after all is said and done, I'm with Joey on this one. Coa sat chilly while Desormeaux was in an all out drive at the top of the stretch, and that cost him the race.

What in the dickens does accelerated faster mean?

I thought acceleration did mean changing speed thru time.
So how does a horse accelerate faster?

Does he mean accelerated before?
I dont get it? That he had a greater acceleration?
A bit confused here... I have watched the race and I
am trying to figure this out.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pObppIfvdwg

ok in my opinion coa gave a hell of a ride..in the first turn he was almost taken out but stayed confident and let him roll.his going wide on the turn outside and sending to get position was the only play from the 9 hole. he then tried to settle abit to the 1/8th pole when ccm came outside he shook em up and not knowing how much horse he had left let it play out..when ccm came back to and moved into his path he swung him outside to try and pass.. a plus ride..imo and thats a a top 5 contender for me..

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pObppIfvdwg

ok in my opinion coa gave a hell of a ride..in the first turn he was almost taken out but stayed confident and let him roll.his going wide on the turn outside and sending to get position was the only play from the 9 hole. he then tried to settle abit to the 1/8th pole when ccm came outside he shook em up and not knowing how much horse he had left let it play out..when ccm came back to and moved into his path he swung him outside to try and pass.. a plus ride..imo and thats a a top 5 contender for me..

I didn't say anything about his ride into the first turn. I just think he was overconfident and waited too long (i.e. until Cool Coal Man had blown by him) to shake up his horse. My feeling is that you shouldn't "settle until the 1/8 pole" unless you're tons the best.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I didn't say anything about his ride into the first turn. I just think he was overconfident and waited too long (i.e. until Cool Coal Man had blown by him) to shake up his horse. My feeling is that you shouldn't "settle until the 1/8 pole" unless you're tons the best.

i see your point..he had used em abit to get there..and could have possibly railed em but he does want to get to the derby..if he had an inside post i dont think he would have lost..

[ninetoone]

It looked to me like he thought he had the race won entering the top of the stretch. He was just outside of the two horses inside of him & they were fading & blocking anyone behind him from taking that path...usually a winning scenario. I think he was probably a little surprised to see Kent blow by him so quickly on the outside & by the time he recovered, it was too late.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So I guess the committee has decided that Elysium Fields re-rallied and almost ran down Cool Coal Man because of the latter getting tired, not because of horse that Coa didn't use earlier?

Fair enough. I saw it another way, and I've seen the same exact ride blow dozens of races.

i saw it exactly like you do. Coa rode very confidently like a statue as he had a ton of horse and was passing the tiring leaders without asking. what he didn't see was KD shaking up Cool Coal Man, pulling him off the rail and putting him into a drive. Of course the moment he caught this out of the corner of his eye he started to get to work on Elysium Fields, and it took awhile to get that one rolling.

I like Coa but I think this time he was just caught off guard a little and got beat to the punch. there is no way he didn't say to himself "oh ****" when Cool Coal Man came around him. He didn't see that coming or else I'm sure he would have driven his mount harder and sooner.

[the_fat_man]

Alot of you guys have much in common with my local OTB patrons. The race is not about who gets the lead on the turn but, rather, who's ahead at the wire. Actually, Coa gave the horse an incredible ride by NOT moving too soon/sharply on the turn. To that point, he'd run more than Cool Cool Man, who was inside sucking up the entire race, and there was no need for him to blow by two horses that had dueled and were ready to quit. If he emulates Kent and moves sharply to the lead, he's DEAD. And, if Kent sits chilly, rather than rocketing off the rail, and entering the stretch OUTSIDE of EF, he'd have won for fun. Only the premature move by Kent made EF look so good. I don't get it with these jocks (Kent NOT Coa, in this case). The leaders are ready to quit, NOBODY is coming, and we're abusing horses with premature moves. These horses would've run 1-2 no matter what, the way the race shaped up.