Bush's first veto

[Downthestretch55]

I spent some time with my son yesterday. He's a post doctorate geneticist doing research on embryonic stem cells seeking remedies for heart defects.
He doesn't use human stem cells yet, though they would certainly be useful for his investigation, as well as his colleagues. The areas of interest is heart defects and restoration of miocardial tissue subsequent to "heart attacks".
Specific genes include but are not limited to Nkx 2.5, Mef2c, and Hand1.
We talked about the limiting of cell lines and predicted that the following would occur.
http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8IVAGAGR.html

Seems that the "moral" line (rather put the unused embryos in the dumpster rather than give scientists access) will continue the anti-scientist sentiments.
Can anyone say, "creative intelligence"?

My guess is that the "fundementalist" votes are more important...but in reality, most voters will have forgotten this long before the elections.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

I spent some time with my son yesterday. He's a post doctorate geneticist doing research on embryonic stem cells seeking remedies for heart defects.
He doesn't use human stem cells yet, though they would certainly be useful for his investigation, as well as his colleagues. The areas of interest is heart defects and restoration of miocardial tissue subsequent to "heart attacks".
Specific genes include but are not limited to Nkx 2.5, Mef2c, and Hand1.
We talked about the limiting of cell lines and predicted that the following would occur.
http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8IVAGAGR.html

Seems that the "moral" line (rather put the unused embryos in the dumpster rather than give scientists access) will continue the anti-scientist sentiments.
Can anyone say, "creative intelligence"?

My guess is that the "fundementalist" votes are more important...but in reality, most voters will have forgotten this long before the elections.

Well, I give Bush credit for standing by his beliefs, I agree that this shouldn't be a huge political issue. As one who is anti-abortion, I share the fears that this would open the door to abuses however I see no reason why that can't be controlled without denying scientists important tools in their fight against human suffering. Sometimes, when issues become so polarizing, neither side can find the door to compromise...and that is always sad. Not saying to compromise one's beliefs, simply to find a way to service the best interests of all humanity.

[dalakhani]

The Christian Right put the W, his daddy and Reagan in office...this was no surprise.

How sad.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well, I give Bush credit for standing by his beliefs, I agree that this shouldn't be a huge political issue. As one who is anti-abortion, I share the fears that this would open the door to abuses however I see no reason why that can't be controlled without denying scientists important tools in their fight against human suffering. Sometimes, when issues become so polarizing, neither side can find the door to compromise...and that is always sad. Not saying to compromise one's beliefs, simply to find a way to service the best interests of all humanity.

Actually, California is taking the lead in state funding of this form of research and also, private funding is becoming more available.
With NIH budget being reduced (see money going to fund the continuing disaster in Iraq), and recent polls showing 70% in favor of this research, Bush has indeed drawn his "line in the sand".
Senator Harkin said it best today, "He's the president, nobody elected him to be the Pope or Ayotollah".
From my point of view, I certainly don't need him making "moral decisions" on my behalf.
If human life is so precious to him, how come the continuing deaths in many places don't hold equal weight as stage eight mitosis frozen embryos?

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Actually, California is taking the lead in state funding of this form of research and also, private funding is becoming more available.
With NIH budget being reduced (see money going to fund the continuing disaster in Iraq), and recent polls showing 70% in favor of this research, Bush has indeed drawn his "line in the sand".
Senator Harkin said it best today, "He's the president, nobody elected him to be the Pope or Ayotollah".
From my point of view, I certainly don't need him making "moral decisions" on my behalf.
If human life is so precious to him, how come the continuing deaths in many places don't hold equal weight as stage eight mitosis frozen embryos?

For that matter, why isn't he campaigning to shut down fertility clinics, since they lead directly to the "death" of thousands of embryos every year? In fact, I believe that's where most of the embryos used in research come from-- people sign over their discarded embryos to research. So he prefers that we permit fertility clinics to continute creating thousands of "lives" that will be "murdered" by disposal, but doesn't favor donating them to research? Seems less like standing up for one's beliefs and more like hypocritical behavior, doesn't it? Oh wait, this IS Bush...

For that matter, why does anyone who thinks life begins at conception think fertility clinics are acceptable? Why aren't they out protesting them and threatening the people who go to them?

[SentToStud]

Struck me as just Bush pandering to the most radical of the right wing.... just hanging on to the last batch of follow the leader disciples remaining true to the end.

"Moral Decision" is just code for "Neo-Conservative Christian Religous Beliefs."

It's so sad what these fear-mongering, bible-thumping, election-stealing, war-losing, CIA agent-outing clowns have done to the Republican Party.

[timmgirvan]

Actually It's the 'take a poll' gutless politicians on both sides of the aisle blowing in the wind of public opinion that stymy any real progress on any topic in the arena today! And a good dose of state secret-stealing, godless unless it serves their purpose,good ole boy,too stupid to run an election right bonehead FLAMERS, leaving the barn door open to military and nuclear secrets that set the Country back 20 years!

[Danzig]

the repubs are trying to continue to hold the 'moral high ground', while dems are afraid of coming off as too godless. yet another no win situation for the american public. no real consideration of what could be done, what would be best, only consideration of what move will garner more votes come fall. and that's by both sides...

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

the repubs are trying to continue to hold the 'moral high ground', while dems are afraid of coming off as too godless. yet another no win situation for the american public. no real consideration of what could be done, what would be best, only consideration of what move will garner more votes come fall. and that's by both sides...

Unfortunately, you are correct. In "desperate politics" it's called playing to your base. Neither party has the best health interests of Americans in consideration. "NO-win"...exactly.

[Danzig]

and now after reading your explanation of stem cells....whew.

genuine is right on about fertility clinics as well.

i said once years ago on the espn board that i was going to start my own political party--call it the constitutionalist party. i know coach said he'd join. lol there's two members, we're on a roll.

the parties are basically full of cowards. great. we're led by cowards, no wonder we're in such a mess. cowards can't lead, they run around in a panic.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

and now after reading your explanation of stem cells....whew.

genuine is right on about fertility clinics as well.

i said once years ago on the espn board that i was going to start my own political party--call it the constitutionalist party. i know coach said he'd join. lol there's two members, we're on a roll.

the parties are basically full of cowards. great. we're led by cowards, no wonder we're in such a mess. cowards can't lead, they run around in a panic.

I agree that the Constitution would work just fine, however, there appear to be ways around it. It would take a while to explain.
I'll start with FISA and signing statements (527). Tricks to dissolve the intention of "checks and balances" between the branches. When one party controls all three branches, there's a lot of room to make it up as you go... and ignore the rest of the Constitution's intent.