Watchmaker: Big Brown a long way from Big Red

[ceejay]

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=95125

Big Brown has been scrutinized for beating up on fields of dubious quality. Of course, the fact that there hasn't been anyone around to date to really test him is not his fault. That said, it would take a good imagination to picture Big Brown coming remotely close to emulating what Secretariat did in the Marlboro Cup. Secretariat not only won the Marlboro Cup in world-record time, he did so with arrogant ease over a field that included two Hall of Famers, Riva Ridge and Cougar II; Canadian Horse of the Year Kennedy Road; and champion Key to the Mint.

As much of an accomplishment as it would be for Big Brown to win Saturday, he could race 100 more times and never do what Secretariat did in his Belmont: He established the reference point by which all modern racehorses are measured.

So if Big Brown wins Saturday, compare away. I will, too, because the rich history of this sport requires such achievements be placed in historical context. Just when you get to Secretariat, be careful. Be very, very careful.

Time may prove him wrong, but I think Watchmaker nailed it with his current column

[Cannon Shell]

It is like writing that Eli Manning isn't as good as Joe montana....no kidding.

[freddymo]

Take Secretariat's first 6 races and compare them to Big Brown's first six and then do comparsions. I am no lover of Big Brown but the jury is still out. Time will tell if permitted?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Take Secretariat's first 6 races and compare them to Big Brown's first six and then do comparsions. I am no lover of Big Brown but the jury is still out. Time will tell if permitted?

I think we are still running against 2 yo's...

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think we are still running against 2 yo's...

My point is its unfair to compare the two and only an idiot or Frank Lyons could suggest that Big Brown is better. I do think it's possible Big Brown could be better but it would take a 4 year old campaign not to mention the Travers, JGCC,and Breeders cup to determine. Will never know but the possiblity exists however remote.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by freddymo

My point is its unfair to compare the two and only an idiot or Frank Lyons could suggest that Big Brown is better. I do think it's possible Big Brown could be better but it would take a 4 year old campaign not to mention the Travers, JGCC,and Breeders cup to determine. Will never know but the possiblity exists however remote.

Really?

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by freddymo

My point is its unfair to compare the two and only an idiot or Frank Lyons could suggest that Big Brown is better. I do think it's possible Big Brown could be better but it would take a 4 year old campaign not to mention the Travers, JGCC,and Breeders cup to determine. Will never know but the possiblity exists however remote.

Isn't Frank Lyons employed somehow by IEAH ?

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is like writing that Eli Manning isn't as good as Joe montana....no kidding.

i know the writer took a real chance with that proclaimation

[ateamstupid]

LOL @ Dew using an Oasis album as a parallel for one of the greatest thoroughbreds who ever lived. Seriously? **** Oasis..

[justindew]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

LOL @ Dew using an Oasis album as a parallel for one of the greatest thoroughbreds who ever lived. Seriously? **** Oasis..

The list of people on this board who have no concept of irony continues to grow by the hour.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by ceejay

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=95125


Time may prove him wrong, but I think Watchmaker nailed it with his current column

If he wins on Saturday and then never races again, the point is moot. He'll be a Triple Crown winner that never raced vs. older or again....thus, a very, very good horse.....but great???????????

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by ceejay

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=95125


Time may prove him wrong, but I think Watchmaker nailed it with his current column

Just for argument's sake, as far as the field goes at the time of the Marlboro Cup:

Key To The Mint was probably toast well before the race. He hadn't started in a couple of months and failed to establish his customary stalking position winding up last by many. He started 12 days later on turf and got trounced and was never heard from again. To say he was in good form at the time would have been dubious.

Kennedy Road and Riva Ridge dueled through ridiculous fractions and probably burned each other up. Cougar, a 7yo making his 48th career start off a brief layoff, was arguably a better grass horse than he was on the main track.

In addition, flanking this race was Secretariat's two monumental defeats in the Whitney and Woodward. To present it as though his Marlboro Cup was the definitive moment in Secretariat's career that somehow validated his greatness above all other Thoroughbred's is as ridiculous as having After Market at the top of your Turf Division leader board for 2008, even though he was retired in 2007...

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Just for argument's sake, as far as the field goes at the time of the Marlboro Cup:

Key To The Mint was probably toast well before the race. He hadn't started in a couple of months and failed to establish his customary stalking position winding up last by many. He started 12 days later on turf and got trounced and was never heard from again. To say he was in good form at the time would have been dubious.

Kennedy Road and Riva Ridge dueled through ridiculous fractions and probably burned each other up. Cougar, a 7yo making his 48th career start off a brief layoff, was arguably a better grass horse than he was on the main track.

In addition, flanking this race was Secretariat's two monumental defeats in the Whitney and Woodward. To present it as though his Marlboro Cup was the definitive moment in Secretariat's career that somehow validated his greatness above all other Thoroughbred's is as ridiculous as having After Market at the top of your Turf Division leader board for 2008, even though he was retired in 2007...

Good stuff.

--Dunbar

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Just for argument's sake, as far as the field goes at the time of the Marlboro Cup:

Cougar, a 7yo making his 48th career start off a brief layoff, was arguably a better grass horse than he was on the main track.

...

Actually, he was only 6 - his birthday was October 16, 1966; a just turned 7yo back home in Chile. He had won 3 G1 races earlier in the year and placed in 4 other G1s, a slightly better year than he had at 6 (although he missed the summer due to an infection on a hind leg that year.)

Did the Coug really like turf better? He won the Californian twice, coming close to Swaps' track record one time; had a first and two seconds (one to HotY Ack Ack, the other by a nose, giving weight) in the Santa Anita H; he galloped in the Woodward by 5 lengths over the best the East Coast could gather, but had to give it back for crowding the tiring leader as he swept to the lead. He RAN on turf more often than on dirt, but its not clear he was better on one than on the other. The only things he didn't like were a wet track - dirt or turf - and races under a mile.

In the Marlboro, His Felinity knocked into the gate at the start, did some fancy broken-field running to get through the field, and was rapidly getting to Riva Ridge for second. Considering he was coming off of a layoff against race-fit competitors at a distance less than his best, he ran up to par, IMHO.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Actually, he was only 6 - his birthday was October 16, 1966; a just turned 7yo back home in Chile. He had won 3 G1 races earlier in the year and placed in 4 other G1s, a slightly better year than he had at 6 (although he missed the summer due to an infection on a hind leg that year.)

No, actually he was 7.

This is lame even for you.

[ceejay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS4f6wiQJh4
Still gives me goosebumps after 35 years........

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

watchmaker gets one call right in 20 years ..=

Originally Posted by ceejay

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=95125


Time may prove him wrong, but I think Watchmaker nailed it with his current column