Sign of a shift from dirt to synthetics?

[SniperSB23]

Found this interesting in a DRF article:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/104752.html

Charlie's Moment sold to Godolphin

Charlie's Moment, the winner of the Grade 3 Laz Barrera Memorial Stakes last month, has been sold to the Maktoum family's Godolphin Racing, former trainer Walther Solis said Wednesday.

The deal was finalized last week, Solis said. Charlie's Moment was being trained for the $100,000 Affirmed Handicap at Hollywood Park on Saturday when the partnership that owns the 3-year-old gelding was approached, Solis said.

The purchase price was not disclosed. "They contacted me after the [Laz Barrera]," Solis said. "They liked the horse because he ran on all the synthetic tracks. I can't say how much they paid, but we couldn't say no."

A winner of 4 of 12 starts and $231,760, Charlie's Moment won his first graded stakes in the Barrera, which was run at seven furlongs. The Barrera was his ninth consecutive stakes appearance.

By Indian Charlie, Charlie's Moment has won three stakes: the Gateway to Glory Stakes on a conventional dirt surface at Fairplex Park last September, and the King Glorious Stakes on a Tapeta surface at Golden Gate Fields in February. Charlie's Moment has also raced on Santa Anita's Pro-Ride surface and Del Mar's Polytrack surface.


We all know that Sheikh Mo is putting a synthetic surface in at Dubai while upping the World Cup purse to $10 million. Is this a sign that he is going to begin shifting his purchasing prerogative as well? He can get any horse he wants, we all know that. And until now people have made big bucks in breeding top dirt horses and selling them to him for unreasonable prices knowing he has the ability to outbid any reasonable person. But is this purchase a sign that his focus has now become getting horses that will run on his future synthetic track? And if so, shouldn't breeders be scurrying to breed to his whims? And if they do should we expect the state of the American dirt horse to decline even further than it has in the past couple years?

As a fan of dirt racing I can't help but feel this is another nail in the coffin.

[Indian Charlie]

His sire though, his progeny can run over anything.

[VOL JACK]

What the Sheik is missing is all his North American Stallions are bred for DIRT and throw DIRT runners. I supppose the Hard Spun's will like the Syn but, Street Sense, Bernardini, and AGS i wouldnt be so sure.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

As a fan of dirt racing I can't help but feel this is another nail in the coffin.

Don't forget the Sheik races Australia, England, France ... turf, dirt, synthetics ... American breeders haven't previously "gone turf" or "gone synthetic" over the last 20 years for the Sheik and put their business (foal crop) on the line breeding with the hope that they will get something one or three or nine deep-pocketed customers will like and buy for overseas racing. Americans will always breed for American racing, and that still means for outstanding dirt three-year-olds, don't you think?

Edit: and don't forget, too, that those "ridiculous prices" have always been produced only when bidders are going against each other (new $$ faces in the game with Luca, Baffert, too, for example, in the 1980's ... ) and the Shiek and Coolmore don't duel much any more.

[Riot]

He and Pegram weren't there in the late 1980's?

Geesh, I'm old ....

[JJP]

Who is the last North American track to convert to synthetic? That's what I thought......none since 2007. People other than the morons in California realize the surfaces are a joke. Who will be the first synthetic track to convert back to real dirt? My money would be on Santa Anita.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Found this interesting in a DRF article:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/104752.html

Charlie's Moment sold to Godolphin

Charlie's Moment, the winner of the Grade 3 Laz Barrera Memorial Stakes last month, has been sold to the Maktoum family's Godolphin Racing, former trainer Walther Solis said Wednesday.

The deal was finalized last week, Solis said. Charlie's Moment was being trained for the $100,000 Affirmed Handicap at Hollywood Park on Saturday when the partnership that owns the 3-year-old gelding was approached, Solis said.

The purchase price was not disclosed. "They contacted me after the [Laz Barrera]," Solis said. "They liked the horse because he ran on all the synthetic tracks. I can't say how much they paid, but we couldn't say no."

A winner of 4 of 12 starts and $231,760, Charlie's Moment won his first graded stakes in the Barrera, which was run at seven furlongs. The Barrera was his ninth consecutive stakes appearance.

By Indian Charlie, Charlie's Moment has won three stakes: the Gateway to Glory Stakes on a conventional dirt surface at Fairplex Park last September, and the King Glorious Stakes on a Tapeta surface at Golden Gate Fields in February. Charlie's Moment has also raced on Santa Anita's Pro-Ride surface and Del Mar's Polytrack surface.


We all know that Sheikh Mo is putting a synthetic surface in at Dubai while upping the World Cup purse to $10 million. Is this a sign that he is going to begin shifting his purchasing prerogative as well? He can get any horse he wants, we all know that. And until now people have made big bucks in breeding top dirt horses and selling them to him for unreasonable prices knowing he has the ability to outbid any reasonable person. But is this purchase a sign that his focus has now become getting horses that will run on his future synthetic track? And if so, shouldn't breeders be scurrying to breed to his whims? And if they do should we expect the state of the American dirt horse to decline even further than it has in the past couple years?

As a fan of dirt racing I can't help but feel this is another nail in the coffin.

There are roughly 45000 mares bred in the US each year. The Arabs buy between 20-40 yearlings in the American market. The vast majority (maybe 98%) aren't breeding with Sheikh Mo in mind.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There are roughly 45000 mares bred in the US each year. The Arabs buy between 20-40 yearlings in the American market. The vast majority (maybe 98%) aren't breeding with Sheikh Mo in mind.

You don't think anyone is breeding a horse in hopes that it shows early speed and is sold to Godolphin? Isn't that the reason to be in the game?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You don't think anyone is breeding a horse in hopes that it shows early speed and is sold to Godolphin? Isn't that the reason to be in the game?

What difference does it make to the breeders if the horse shows speed and is sold to Godolphin as the vast majority of breeders sell their horses before they reach the races? You are not understand the commercial breeding business though most dont either. While it is certainly a hope for breeders that the Arabs will want to buy their horses, they only buy from certain sires (including for awhile no coolmore stallions) and the mares have to have a ton of pedigree. The size of the pool of horses that would even qualify for them to look at as babies is very small. Commercial breeders breed hoping to sell enough to cover the expenses with the hopes that every once in a while they get an outstanding foal who will sell really well regardless of who buys it.

[pointman]

With all the rain in Dubai, I can understand why they need a synthetic surface.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What difference does it make to the breeders if the horse shows speed and is sold to Godolphin as the vast majority of breeders sell their horses before they reach the races? You are not understand the commercial breeding business though most dont either. While it is certainly a hope for breeders that the Arabs will want to buy their horses, they only buy from certain sires (including for awhile no coolmore stallions) and the mares have to have a ton of pedigree. The size of the pool of horses that would even qualify for them to look at as babies is very small. Commercial breeders breed hoping to sell enough to cover the expenses with the hopes that every once in a while they get an outstanding foal who will sell really well regardless of who buys it.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is for that small group of mares with tons of pedigree will we see a shift in what stallions they are sent to from sires whose progeny excel on the dirt to sires whose progeny excel on synthetics? If Sheikh Mo becomes more interested in getting synthetic horses for his new track I can't see that being anything but bad for dirt racing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I guess what I'm trying to get at is for that small group of mares with tons of pedigree will we see a shift in what stallions they are sent to from sires whose progeny excel on the dirt to sires whose progeny excel on synthetics? If Sheikh Mo becomes more interested in getting synthetic horses for his new track I can't see that being anything but bad for dirt racing.

Only if you can define strictly synthetic stallions. I understand what you are getting at but it is close to impossible to establish what synthetic breeding is without years of more data. The scary thing would be Sheikh Mo stop buying horses.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There are roughly 45000 mares bred in the US each year. The Arabs buy between 20-40 yearlings in the American market. The vast majority (maybe 98%) aren't breeding with Sheikh Mo in mind.

Have to believe the Purim-Sumonelovesyou will be available if Shiek Mo feels like spending 2.1 mil?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Have to believe the Purim-Sumonelovesyou will be available if Shiek Mo feels like spending 2.1 mil?

Not a penny less.