So just WHO targets and kills civilians??

[SentToStud]

Those of you who think Hezbollah just showed up 6 weeks ago are knowingly wrong. They've been a part (sometimes a bad part) of the landscape in the Middle East for a long time. And it's very much debatable which side took the first "go to war" actions.

For all of you generalizing Israeli casualties as the Arab targeting of civilians, here is a count of the dead:

Israel
Civilians 39
Soldiers 109
Total 148

Lebanon
Civilians 689
Fighters 102
Total 791

Interesting numbers.

For those wondering what the Israeli military thinks of the deal their politicians made, here's what Lt. Roy Shaposik of the Israeli Army had to say, "We didn't get anything out of this. I think this is the first time that Israel lost a war."

Just another way to view things other than the ultra pro-Israel/ Anti-Arab way of rationalization.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Those of you who think Hezbollah just showed up 6 weeks ago are knowingly wrong. They've been a part (sometimes a bad part) of the landscape in the Middle East for a long time. And it's very much debatable which side took the first "go to war" actions.

For all of you generalizing Israeli casualties as the Arab targeting of civilians, here is a count of the dead:

Israel
Civilians 39
Soldiers 109
Total 148

Lebanon
Civilians 689
Fighters 102
Total 791

Interesting numbers.

For those wondering what the Israeli military thinks of the deal their politicians made, here's what Lt. Roy Shaposik of the Israeli Army had to say, "We didn't get anything out of this. I think this is the first time that Israel lost a war."

Just another way to view things other than the ultra pro-Israel/ Anti-Arab way of rationalization.

B....now I am as white bread american as they come. Hitler would have taken one look at me and told me to go make tons of babies. Hitler was one evil SOB and in no way do I believe in anything he wanted, but merely providing you with a background as to my heritage....Im about as WASPy as they come....so I have no dog in this fight over there. But, if it is true that Hezbollah is hiding, living and fighting among the civilians, isn't it true to expect the civilian casualty count to be higher?

I mentioned on here a couple weeks ago that I was furtunate enough to sit down privately with a Colonel in the Israeli military and get that side of the whole ordeal. I know of no one that is able to sit me down and explain to me the other side.

I am not passing judgement by anymeans, only trying to better understand the whole war going on from both sides.

[Danzig]

hezbollah sets up their rocket launchers in the middle of their civvies....on purpose. why? to make the 'evil israelis' appear even more so...why, the monsters. look at all the innocent people killed!

[Downthestretch55]

If you've read Seymore Hirsh's article in the New Yorker, you might get an insight as to what is really happening.
Bush gave Condi the instructions to stall...so Israel could go ahead and "defeat the terrorists".
Guess what?
They didn't.
Hezbollah is now claiming "victory" that they held off a surperior military force (third largest in the world).
Are the terrorists gaining confidence?
Unfortunately, this mess is just a pretext to divert attention from the US failure in Iraq prior to the November elections, where the Republicans will loose their majority in the House of Representatives.
The "War on Terror" has been the "play card". Feed the fear.
Reality is that the British were pushed to make arrests for the 9-11 type terror attacks, and people have lined up to take off their shoes, discard their toothpaste and lipstick...all to make the world more "secure". HMMM.
Reminds me of an "orange alert" two summers ago when the tunnels going into NYC were under threat, and I sat for hours in the heat on the NJ Turnpike.
Does this little boy "cry wolf" enough?
Seems that lots play along with the nonsense...even vote for it.

Now, the REAL future...
The US (Bush and neo cons) will use any and all pretexts for dropping 500K bombs (bunker busters) on already targeted Iranian sites....YES! IRAN!
Unfortunately, this action will not be won either. The US military does not have sufficient man power to put "boots on the ground". Already many troops are doing second and third tours in Iraq...trying to deny the reality of the "civil war" that was created by Bush's and his "policy advisors'" actions.

Two things to consider...
1) Disapproval of current policies by this administration, especially regarding Iraq are at an all time low...28% in favor.
2) Israeli actions against Lebanon, though unsupported by the vast majority of the world's nations, are only a pretext to future actions that will generate even more animosity in the Arab world. Seems that Hitler taught the Jewish people a great deal. Instead of learning from that lesson, the apply those lessons to others... and it will indeed cost us all, just like the misguided policies of the Bush administration.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

If you've read Seymore Hirsh's article in the New Yorker, you might get an insight as to what is really happening.
Bush gave Condi the instructions to stall...so Israel could go ahead and "defeat the terrorists".
Guess what?
They didn't.
Hezbollah is now claiming "victory" that they held off a surperior military force (third largest in the world).
Are the terrorists gaining confidence?
Unfortunately, this mess is just a pretext to divert attention from the US failure in Iraq prior to the November elections, where the Republicans will loose their majority in the House of Representatives.
The "War on Terror" has been the "play card". Feed the fear.
Reality is that the British were pushed to make arrests for the 9-11 type terror attacks, and people have lined up to take off their shoes, discard their toothpaste and lipstick...all to make the world more "secure". HMMM.
Reminds me of an "orange alert" two summers ago when the tunnels going into NYC were under threat, and I sat for hours in the heat on the NJ Turnpike.
Does this little boy "cry wolf" enough?
Seems that lots play along with the nonsense...even vote for it.

Now, the REAL future...
The US (Bush and neo cons) will use any and all pretexts for dropping 500K bombs (bunker busters) on already targeted Iranian sites....YES! IRAN!
Unfortunately, this action will not be won either. The US military does not have sufficient man power to put "boots on the ground". Already many troops are doing second and third tours in Iraq...trying to deny the reality of the "civil war" that was created by Bush's and his "policy advisors'" actions.

Two things to consider...
1) Disapproval of current policies by this administration, especially regarding Iraq are at an all time low...28% in favor.
2) Israeli actions against Lebanon, though unsupported by the vast majority of the world's nations, are only a pretext to future actions that will generate even more animosity in the Arab world. Seems that Hitler taught the Jewish people a great deal. Instead of learning from that lesson, the apply those lessons to others... and it will indeed cost us all, just like the misguded policies of the Bush administration.

That is simply a bunch of crap, the most outlandish stuff I've read thus far...comparing Israel to Nazi Germany...man, the true colors are starting to show now! A nation defends itself against terrorist attack and the "Hate America" crowd turns the entire thing into a Jew-Bush conspiracy! This post doesn't deserve a response except for the fact that some crackpots will actually buy it (obviously, it's posted here). What about the concerns of a prominent historian who states that August 22nd is a special day for the radical Islamics, the day a great Islamic warrior defeated his foes and stood victorious on the banks of Palestine and something else I didn't get about Mohammad...according to this guy, the crackpots in Iran have orchestrated this mess to draw world attention away from their nuke program and their fearless leader, you know..the guy who wants Israel destroyed and says the Holocaust never happened, is planning on answering the world regarding the nuke program on...August 22nd! His answer...nuking Israel and if possible us!
That theory is as credible as this crap!!!!!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

That is simply a bunch of crap, the most outlandish stuff I've read thus far...comparing Israel to Nazi Germany...man, the true colors are starting to show now! A nation defends itself against terrorist attack and the "Hate America" crowd turns the entire thing into a Jew-Bush conspiracy! This post doesn't deserve a response except for the fact that some crackpots will actually buy it (obviously, it's posted here). What about the concerns of a prominent historian who states that August 22nd is a special day for the radical Islamics, the day a great Islamic warrior defeated his foes and stood victorious on the banks of Palestine and something else I didn't get about Mohammad...according to this guy, the crackpots in Iran have orchestrated this mess to draw world attention away from their nuke program and their fearless leader, you know..the guy who wants Israel destroyed and says the Holocaust never happened, is planning on answering the world regarding the nuke program on...August 22nd! His answer...nuking Israel and if possible us!
That theory is as credible as this crap!!!!!

Somerfrost,
Please take the time to read Seymore Hersh's article.
Pay careful attention to his last sentence.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/conten.../060821fa_fact

[somerfrost]

This is pure spin....
1) where do these figures come from
2) the terrorists hide among the innocent
3) when you bite the big dog....

1) Lebanon has made outrageous claims of civilian casualties from the beginning, they have been exposed inflating civilian casualty numbers several times...the Israeli's can't provide accurate numbers regarding the Lebanese and there is no independent group there to my knowledge so I'd have to know exactly who is providing the numbers here!
2) As others have stated, the terrorists hid among civilian populations for the purpose of driving up these numbers.
3) Israel simply has more firepower...if the terrorists had the Israeli airforce, Israel would be carpet bombed and you know it!

[31lengths]

So just WHO targets and kills civilians??


Terrorists.