Who holds the clockers in the mornings and odds makers accountable?

[kgar311]

Taking nothing away from what was an ultra impressive performance by Connie and Micheal in the 8th at Keeneland on Saturday my question is, are there any penalties for these guys trying to hide a freak of a horse by slapping 101 and 103 works on a first time starter and then throwing 12-1ml on her?

This was a clear cut case of trying to screw the betting public to try and get a price on a horse that, by looking at the opening odds (even money) and the contingent in the winners circle after race(about 50 deep), obviously everybody(on track) knew was going to win by the length of the track.

If you didnt see the race this was a 2yr old filly, first time starter breaking from the 12 hole going 7f. She had to work for the lead a little but once clear went 22, 45, 110 and finished up 122.3 winning by over 7 lengths under a hand ride.

The reason why it makes me mad is because it was the second leg of the pick 4 and if you didnt have the inside info there's no way you could put this horse in your pik, in which I did not and it ended up costing me.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Taking nothing away from what was an ultra impressive performance by Connie and Micheal in the 8th at Keeneland on Saturday my question is, are there any penalties for these guys trying to hide a freak of a horse by slapping 101 and 103 works on a first time starter and then throwing 12-1ml on her?

This was a clear cut case of trying to screw the betting public to try and get a price on a horse that, by looking at the opening odds (even money) and the contingent in the winners circle after race(about 50 deep), obviously everybody(on track) knew was going to win by the length of the track.

If you didnt see the race this was a 2yr old filly, first time starter breaking from the 12 hole going 7f. She had to work for the lead a little but once clear went 22, 45, 110 and finished up 122.3 winning by over 7 lengths under a hand ride.

The reason why it makes me mad is because it was the second leg of the pick 4 and if you didnt have the inside info there's no way you could put this horse in your pik, in which I did not and it ended up costing me.

I'm not going to comment on the 12-1ML because I don't know the rest of the field that well, but why do you think there is an automatic correlation between morning works and afternoon peformances?

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I'm not going to comment on the 12-1ML because I don't know the rest of the field that well, but why do you think there is an automatic correlation between morning works and afternoon peformances?

The horse was an absloute freak monster and NO WAY was throwing out shitty workouts like they put down in the form. And that was made very clear by the horse opening up even money. This was a clear case of cheating on the clockers part, now the odds maker im not sure but this seems too planned out for me.

[Duvalier]

Sometimes it is the barn hiding workouts and the clocker is only reporting the actual workout time. Maybe the filly wasn't asked to do too much so as not to tip their hand in the morning with the hopes of cashing a bet.

I don't know the specifics with the horse you're talking about so I'm not insinuating this is what happened...but to blame the clocker and morning line maker isn't really justified. Really is nothing new...it has happened many times before at just about every race track in the country at one time or another.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Sometimes it is the barn hiding workouts and the clocker is only reporting the actual workout time. Maybe the filly wasn't asked to do too much so as not to tip their hand in the morning with the hopes of cashing a bet.

I don't know the specifics with the horse you're talking about so I'm not insinuating this is what happened...but to blame the clocker and morning line maker isn't really justified. Really is nothing new...it has happened many times before at just about every race track in the country at one time or another.

Im calling foul, if your horse is really working 103 and change in the mornings how do you know what you have? When every one unloaded on this horse where they simply guessing that this might be a good horse? Not one work justified that this horse open up even money especially a first time 2year old filly starter coming out of the 12 hole.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Im calling foul, if your horse is really working 103 and change in the mornings how do you know what you have? When every one unloaded on this horse where they simply guessing that this might be a good horse? Not one work justified that this horse open up even money especially a first time 2year old filly starter coming out of the 12 hole.

You sometimes know. It is also the other way around. They can work lights out and then throw duds in the afternoon.

Works on paper mean absolutely NOTHING. I only look at the progression if that is even there.

A perfect example is something that is happening at Keeneland. There has been a bunch of horses that have been coming off layoffs and they have had only one work on the page, it is because they have been working on the guys farm or a layup facility, and those places don't have to give times.

[Duvalier]

Looking at the horse and it's prior workouts...back to back bullets going 4 furlongs at Churchill in September would give somewhat of a hint of talent.

[parsixfarms]

I'm not going to justify some of the backstretch shenanigans that go on (this is another area where a Trackus-like system would help in terms of transparency), but if the race is the second leg of the pic-4 and the track has rolling doubles (Keeneland does), they will often provide a better clue than the morning line. Of course, if the race is the third or fourth leg of the sequence, you are really betting "on the blind."

[phystech]

Originally Posted by kgar311

.... by looking at the opening odds (even money) and the contingent in the winners circle after race(about 50 deep), obviously everybody(on track) knew was going to win by the length of the track.

How many times have we seen a DT horse open up at real short odds off of a high M/L? Lots.

So, given your mention of 50 people in the photo, you kind of solved your own conspiracy - large groups bet their horses, and they usually make most of their bets before the horse even enters the paddock.

Sometimes betting is not just about the horses but also about knowing the owners.....