Point Given

[Indian Charlie]

Just read his stud fee was jumped from $7500 to 20k.

Isn't Coil his only useful runner going lately?

That is an odd thing for his fee to jump up that much.

[Thunder Gulch]

Sure looks like his usefulness is diminishing. Only 2 millionaires in his career.


By Current Year Earnings
Name Earnings
Coil $755,200
Pointless Love $74,190
Passion Point $68,040
True to a Point $62,750
Fly Angel Fly $55,910
Cartier Lady $52,535
Lookn Even Finer $51,599
Primary Notice $48,120
Duchess of Doom $41,997
Ashes To Glory (GB) $37,361

[PatCummings]

If he is a hall of famer...Gio Ponti has to be, right?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

If he is a hall of famer...Gio Ponti has to be, right?

How can you even begin to compare the 2? Point GIven was a dominate 3yr old over a pretty good crop. Gio Ponti is an admirable, but not that good turf horse. He is consistent, but has some serious distance limitations. He has faced years of bad american turf horses as well.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

How can you even begin to compare the 2? Point GIven was a dominate 3yr old over a pretty good crop. Gio Ponti is an admirable, but not that good turf horse. He is consistent, but has some serious distance limitations. He has faced years of bad american turf horses as well.

What distance? 6 furlongs or 2 1/2 miles?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

What distance? 6 furlongs or 2 1/2 miles?

Just the way Ramon handles him going 10f and up tells me they are not sure he can get those distances. They have to run him in those races though, where else can they run? Not to mention he runs second a lot.

[Calzone Lord]

Point Given was a monster 3yo and dominated a deep and talented 3yo divison. He had a tremendously impressive Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers sweep in his final 4 starts.

Gio Ponti was a good, consistant, healthy top class American turf horse for a couple of years. Built a very nice resume in our turf races -- but turf racing is an afterthought in this country.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Point Given was a monster 3yo and dominated a deep and talented 3yo divison. He had a tremendously impressive Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers sweep in his final 4 starts.

Gio Ponti was a good, consistant, healthy top class American turf horse for a couple of years. Built a very nice resume in our turf races -- but turf racing is an afterthought in this country.

I think I just said this, pretty much word for word.

[Calzone Lord]

I scroll-wheel past your posts without reading them.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Point Given was a monster 3yo and dominated a deep and talented 3yo divison. He had a tremendously impressive Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers sweep in his final 4 starts.

Gio Ponti was a good, consistant, healthy top class American turf horse for a couple of years. Built a very nice resume in our turf races -- but turf racing is an afterthought in this country.

First - I question the credentials of many of the horses Point Given defeated in his wins (against some small fields). Wins might've been impressive, but shouldn't you at least face open competition before you're crowned a HoFer, barring a Triple Crown sweep?

Second - because he did it on turf, it doesn't count as much?

Gio Ponti is everything we don't have enough of in this sport...wins over five seasons, always showed up (never beaten more than 4 lengths in his 17 losses, 2.5 lengths or less in 16 of them)...

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

First - I question the credentials of many of the horses Point Given defeated in his wins (against some small fields). Wins might've been impressive, but shouldn't you at least face open competition before you're crowned a HoFer, barring a Triple Crown sweep?

Second - because he did it on turf, it doesn't count as much?

Gio Ponti is everything we don't have enough of in this sport...wins over five seasons, always showed up (never beaten more than 4 lengths in his 17 losses, 2.5 lengths or less in 16 of them)...

When I first started posting here as PointGiven I was told that 2 lengths in a turf race is a ton. A lot different from 2 lengths in a dirt race. Multiple members said that.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

First - I question the credentials of many of the horses Point Given defeated in his wins (against some small fields). Wins might've been impressive, but shouldn't you at least face open competition before you're crowned a HoFer, barring a Triple Crown sweep?

He faced very good 3yo competiton -- races like the Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers are among the most prized of the Grade 1's by owners.

How many horses have completed such a sweep?

You can't fault him for getting hurt before having a chance to face older males... but sure, it's a hole in his resume.

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Second - because he did it on turf, it doesn't count as much?

Turf racing is an afterthought here. Most of the good turf sires aren't here -- our good horses often aren't even tried on turf until they've flopped on dirt. We breed and race primarily for dirt.

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Gio Ponti is everything we don't have enough of in this sport...wins over five seasons, always showed up (never beaten more than 4 lengths in his 17 losses, 2.5 lengths or less in 16 of them)...

His case would have been helped had he beat Court Vision the other day.

Maybe a hall of fame for hangers who stay healthy?

[citycat]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Just read his stud fee was jumped from $7500 to 20k.

Isn't Coil his only useful runner going lately?

That is an odd thing for his fee to jump up that much.

Cant seem to find an article on that? Can you tell me where you read that?

[GPK]

http://www.drf.com/news/three-chimne...stud-fee-20000

Originally Posted by citycat

Cant seem to find an article on that? Can you tell me where you read that?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by GPK

http://www.drf.com/news/three-chimne...stud-fee-20000

I wonder what the thinking behind the fee raise is. Does Three Chimneys expect everyone else to blindly follow this unidentified, private investor's lead? Or are they simply trying to eliminate the lower-end mares he typically gets?

Other question is, what fee does the private investor have to pay? If I brought 20+ quality mares to an inexpensive stallion like Point Given, I certainly wouldn't expect the farm to ask me to pay nearly 3 times his stud fee in response.

Of course, you also have Kitten's Joy's stud fee doubled. Now Ken Ramsey can own all the Kitten's Joys out there. Banned's success for Glen Hill must have really got on his nerves. I hope he runs out of family members soon so that those horses can get some proper names.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Of course, you also have Kitten's Joy's stud fee doubled. Now Ken Ramsey can own all the Kitten's Joys out there. Banned's success for Glen Hill must have really got on his nerves. I hope he runs out of family members soon so that those horses can get some proper names.

The dam of Banned, Cardinalli, in foal to Kitten's Joy, was an RNA at $395K at FT-November. Incredible, given her rather spotty produce record (2007 foal died and she was not pregnant in 2009 or 2011).

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I wonder what the thinking behind the fee raise is. Does Three Chimneys expect everyone else to blindly follow this unidentified, private investor's lead? Or are they simply trying to eliminate the lower-end mares he typically gets?

I don't get it either. I fail to see how a private investor's interest in the horse in 2012 is going to help someone breeding to Point Given in 2012, unless he is not only going to breed to the stallion but also support the stallion when his offspring hit the sales ring (like the Sheikh does with the Darley stallions). Still, it'd be a reach.

[Indian Charlie]

I read a different article and that article did not mention this private guy.

At least now there is a glimmer of sense to it.