Polytrack devils advocates please respond

Ok, one of the worst things I know of, is the sickening redboarding that goes on after races here lately.
You just can't haveit both ways folks.
I'd like the polytrack proponents to respond now if they would graciously take the time to do so, but I have a strong feeling that none will answer this without covering all the bases.
Tomorrow in the 2Yo race at Keeneland we have a colt who looks truly good. Circular Quay has handled all three of his starts very impressively and with his running style and pedigree looks to be a sure fire candidate to strtech out well.
If he wins tomorrow are you guys gonna say, see they all can run on Poly?
And if he loses will you admit that many don't run on it, or will you play devils advocate and say well he wasnt proven, it was two turns, 2Yo's are inconsistent, blah blah blah.
I'd love to see some of you guys go on the record before a race, just one time. It would really be a refreshing change. Do you or do you not feel that CQ lays over that field in terms of ability and will a loss on the tires prove anything or not.
I'm not holding my breath here waiting for anyone to say anything concrete.
Its my opinion if this race was on dirt that he would win by 10 lengths. And I'm almost hoping he loses so thathe can come back in the BC and roast them. Then we can ask all those who claim that this is a suitable dirt alternative why his only loss came on the tires.

[Pointg5]

He's the best no doubt, but my dartboard is predicting 3,4,5,6...

Originally Posted by Pointg5

He's the best no doubt, but my dartboard is predicting 3,4,5,6...

I just wanna get this out in the open now Point.
Redboarders are the equivalent of pond scum in the racing world. People who hang it out there before a race with thoughts and statements and picks, even if completely wrong, always get more credit than a redboarder who attempts to act oh so intellectual and knowledgable after the race with big words and oh so well written posts smacking of condescension.
We've been invaded with a hoard of redboarders lately who never once post thoughts or selections before races, yet have "all the answers" afterwards.
Just yesterday a few guys attempted to ridicule my contention that With A City was an impossible horse to bet on earlier this year. They made cases for how he could be played. I then asked them how much money they made on him and I heard crickets chirping. Thing is the ones they ridiculed were themselves, because if I ever could make any kind of case for a horse who is 50-1 or higher, you can damn well bet I'm gonna get some money down on the horse if I have to walk 10 miles to do so.
I, like you, feel he lays over the field by ten lengths. Yet I have zero confidence that he will win. What I'm trying to do is have one of these redboarders tell me who they think will beat him if he does lose, and if they think he will win or lose and why or why not.
Anyone who posts today and ignores this thread and then tries to redboard after the race, will be put into the "you are officially a cowardly redboarding scum" category and deemed a complete bull****ter and useless.

[Sightseek]

I'll play once I get home from work and pick up the form, since one could say I readboarded bringing up Ball Four, but I did pick him in an online contest on another forum, so the selection was there for the cyperworld to see the night before.

Curious, why did you pick this race?

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'll play once I get home from work and pick up the form, since one could say I readboarded bringing up Ball Four, but I did pick him in an online contest on another forum, so the selection was there for the cyperworld to see the night before.

Curious, why did you pick this race?

I picked this race because the redboarders were saying we have yet to see a good horse race on it and lose Seek. Obviously we have a very nice two year old here who lays over the field in terms of ability and talent. He has a good post, great trainer and jock. His numbers are way faster than these and hes got the pedigree and running style to stretch easily. hes also already won a grade one. I'd say at this point hes the most overwhelming "good" horse to race on polytrack.

[Nostradamus]

Poly saves horses lives. That is all we need to know. It also lets horses run more often and it will bring bigger betting fields. It also will save the average owner thousands in vet costs. Horse safety is the number one priority.

Who should we trust? Michael Tabor or Oracle. LOL.

Your lies about trainers hating poly is getting old.

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Poly saves horses lives. That is all we need to know. It also lets horses run more often and it will bring bigger betting fields. It also will save the average owner thousands in vet costs. Horse safety is the number one priority.

Who should we trust? Michael Tabor or Oracle. LOL.

Your lies about trainers hating poly is getting old.

Is Tabor a good example?

[Pointg5]

Okay, it's not dartboard, but here's the reason I like the 3,4,5,6, I can't believe I am trying to figure this out:

French Transition:
Ran on turf and poly, ran reasonably well on both, so maybe he's versatile enough to handle it.

Teufleberg:
This one pains me more than anything, because I hate breeding cappers, they are morons in my book.
He's by Johannesburg, he could handle turf and dirt, maybe this one does, maybe not. He's run okay, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him win

Birdbirdistheword:
Bled in the nice maiden race, so we can forgive that effort, it was a key race and he's run well since. Maybe he'll handle the poly.

Passport:
Run on Turf and dirt and never lost, looks versatile, so maybe he'll run well. He's never lost and I will never hold that against a horse, regardless of competition.

This is pathetic, CQ is the man and I have to go with a bunch of maybe's, because of the Poly...

If I recall you're the one hellbent on Poly being unpredictable and bad for handicapping. I said that there isn't enough data to say whether poly is good or bad.

Looks like the ball is in your court. I'll stay on the side of the infidels...err redboarders, Mr. bin Laden...err oracle.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

If I recall you're the one hellbent on Poly being unpredictable and bad for handicapping. I said that there isn't enough data to say whether poly is good or bad.

Looks like the ball is in your court. I'll stay on the side of the infidels...err redboarders, Mr. bin Laden...err oracle.

You are 100% correct. There is not enough data. The only thing they are fairly certain of is it is better for horses and bad for veterinarians making money. Screw the gamblers. If they can't figure it out, too bad for them.

All I know is there are huge fields at Keeneland and little fields at Belmont this weekend. And Todd Pletcher has owners who want their horses on the poly.

Oracle's greatest horse ever, Circular Quay, is on the poly because the owner wants him on it. Enough said.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

If I recall you're the one hellbent on Poly being unpredictable and bad for handicapping. I said that there isn't enough data to say whether poly is good or bad.

Looks like the ball is in your court. I'll stay on the side of the infidels...err redboarders, Mr. bin Laden...err oracle.

So you have no prediction but we can count on all the answers afterwards again? Thanks, thats what I expected.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Okay, it's not dartboard, but here's the reason I like the 3,4,5,6, I can't believe I am trying to figure this out:

French Transition:
Ran on turf and poly, ran reasonably well on both, so maybe he's versatile enough to handle it.

Teufleberg:
This one pains me more than anything, because I hate breeding cappers, they are morons in my book. He's by Johannesburg, he could handle turf and dirt, maybe this one does, maybe not. He's run okay, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him win

Birdbirdistheword:
Bled in the nice maiden race, so we can forgive that effort, it was a key race and he's run well since. Maybe he'll handle the poly.

Passport:
Run on Turf and dirt and never lost, looks versatile, so maybe he'll run well. He's never lost and I will never hold that against a horse, regardless of competition.

This is pathetic, CQ is the man and I have to go with a bunch of maybe's, because of the Poly...

Why are they morons Mwind?

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by GPK

Why are they morons Mwind?

I hate it, because it's rediculous to me, to look at a horse on paper and based on breeding he will do this or do that. There's no telling what he'll do and don't tell me that he will do such and such, because of who he's bred out of. I don't care if a horse is by Car Dealer or Froggywentacourt'n(2 Ohio Breds) if they are a good horse, they are good horse. When we get these posts of check out this hip or that hip in a sale, I want to vomit. Granted, not everyone wants to read what I have to say, I know that, but these people really no nothing other than some boring inbreeding or something like that. I got news for them, every AP Indy is not Bernardini...Give me a hard trying, fast, poorly bred horse any day of the week...

[jpops757]

The only way they will catch anything beating CQ is a dartboard, a horse with positive poly experience or the all button. I will, with my fingers crossed single CQ. The poly could be thequal to a 50 pound sack of chit for him to tote.I agree its a win win thing for pro poly folks. If he wins they will say Itold you so. If he loses they will say isnt it nice as an equalizer.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I just wanna get this out in the open now Point.
Redboarders are the equivalent of pond scum in the racing world. People who hang it out there before a race with thoughts and statements and picks, even if completely wrong, always get more credit than a redboarder who attempts to act oh so intellectual and knowledgable after the race with big words and oh so well written posts smacking of condescension.
We've been invaded with a hoard of redboarders lately who never once post thoughts or selections before races, yet have "all the answers" afterwards.
Just yesterday a few guys attempted to ridicule my contention that With A City was an impossible horse to bet on earlier this year. They made cases for how he could be played. I then asked them how much money they made on him and I heard crickets chirping. Thing is the ones they ridiculed were themselves, because if I ever could make any kind of case for a horse who is 50-1 or higher, you can damn well bet I'm gonna get some money down on the horse if I have to walk 10 miles to do so.
I, like you, feel he lays over the field by ten lengths. Yet I have zero confidence that he will win. What I'm trying to do is have one of these redboarders tell me who they think will beat him if he does lose, and if they think he will win or lose and why or why not.
Anyone who posts today and ignores this thread and then tries to redboard after the race, will be put into the "you are officially a cowardly redboarding scum" category and deemed a complete bull****ter and useless.

You pick a two year old race to make this contention? Its completely ridiculous.

History is littered with two year olds that looked great in the summer and didnt make it in fall when it was time to add the turn and the extra distance. Could you blame it on the track with those horses as well?

Circular Quay looks to be an extremely talented animal. He may not take to the track but then again he may not take to churchill downs either. He may love the added distance. Then again, he may not.

I will be betting on another horse (passport more than likely) in this race if for no other reason than the price on CQ being short with too many unknown variables. Those same unknown variable would be there on any track though.

As for Poly, i am with Pillow Pants in that there havent been enough races run on it to make any kind of real determinations. As for now, trainers like your boy Pletcher seem to love it. The racing is more exciting as the fields are consistently bigger.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You pick a two year old race to make this contention? Its completely ridiculous.

History is littered with two year olds that looked great in the summer and didnt make it in fall when it was time to add the turn and the extra distance. Could you blame it on the track with those horses as well?

Circular Quay looks to be an extremely talented animal. He may not take to the track but then again he may not take to churchill downs either. He may love the added distance. Then again, he may not.

I will be betting on another horse (passport more than likely) in this race if for no other reason than the price on CQ being short with too many unknown variables. Those same unknown variable would be there on any track though.

As for Poly, i am with Pillow Pants in that there havent been enough races run on it to make any kind of real determinations. As for now, trainers like your boy Pletcher seem to love it. The racing is more exciting as the fields are consistently bigger.

Thats two who covered all bases without a prediction. Thanks again, I handicap people pretty well also.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Thats two who covered all bases without a prediction. Thanks again, I handicap people pretty well also.

Hey, youre the one with the agenda dickbrain. For you, it is a no lose propostion.

If CQ wins, you can gloat about how you knew he was the greatest thing since wheat bread.

If he loses, you can preach your "anti poly" doctrine.

Lovely.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You pick a two year old race to make this contention? Its completely ridiculous.

History is littered with two year olds that looked great in the summer and didnt make it in fall when it was time to add the turn and the extra distance. Could you blame it on the track with those horses as well?

Circular Quay looks to be an extremely talented animal. He may not take to the track but then again he may not take to churchill downs either. He may love the added distance. Then again, he may not.

I will be betting on another horse (passport more than likely) in this race if for no other reason than the price on CQ being short with too many unknown variables. Those same unknown variable would be there on any track though.

As for Poly, i am with Pillow Pants in that there havent been enough races run on it to make any kind of real determinations. As for now, trainers like your boy Pletcher seem to love it. The racing is more exciting as the fields are consistently bigger.

Exactly how I feel which made me ask....

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Exactly how I feel which made me ask....

Thats three.
Ok so now that we have those thoughts.
Explain what level of animal(age, distance, class) has to run in it in order for us to get a read on it. Seriously. because you've now cut two year olds out of the mix.
Grass doesn't apply.
So are you saying its gotta be an older horse? because history is littered with older horses who go in and out of form as well.
Near as I can tell you are saying something like an unbeaten olderhorse or mare has to run on it in order to get a read on it.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I just wanna get this out in the open now Point.
Redboarders are the equivalent of pond scum in the racing world. People who hang it out there before a race with thoughts and statements and picks, even if completely wrong, always get more credit than a redboarder who attempts to act oh so intellectual and knowledgable after the race with big words and oh so well written posts smacking of condescension.
We've been invaded with a hoard of redboarders lately who never once post thoughts or selections before races, yet have "all the answers" afterwards.
Just yesterday a few guys attempted to ridicule my contention that With A City was an impossible horse to bet on earlier this year. They made cases for how he could be played. I then asked them how much money they made on him and I heard crickets chirping. Thing is the ones they ridiculed were themselves, because if I ever could make any kind of case for a horse who is 50-1 or higher, you can damn well bet I'm gonna get some money down on the horse if I have to walk 10 miles to do so.
I, like you, feel he lays over the field by ten lengths. Yet I have zero confidence that he will win. What I'm trying to do is have one of these redboarders tell me who they think will beat him if he does lose, and if they think he will win or lose and why or why not.
Anyone who posts today and ignores this thread and then tries to redboard after the race, will be put into the "you are officially a cowardly redboarding scum" category and deemed a complete bull****ter and useless.

Looking at a race afterwards and seeing how someone could have picked a horse is not redboarding, that is just good handicapping, see what you missed and learn from your mistakes. If I came on here and said I picked With a City and had no post to back it up then that would be redboarding.

I post my picks on another forum all the time out there for everyone to see and judge me on, not my fault you don't read it. I'll start posting them more often on here as well if that will make you feel better but I hate double posting since I know a lot of people read both forums.

I don't know where you got crickets chirping since I told you I bet Silent Times in that race. As far as my not betting With a City I capped the race in the morning so I could watch the NCAA Tournament which is a million times more important to me than some second rate Derby prep over a surface that was totally unknown at the time. I thought the whole field sucked but that at 5-1 Silent Times had the best chance of actually being a quality horse. Had I known Silent Times would have gone from 5-1 to 7-2 and With a City from 30-1 to 49-1 then maybe I would have looked harder at With a City. Fact is I totally missed the fact that it was his second race off the layoff and tossed him on his form in his first race back. Unlike you though I can go back and look at it and see what I missed rather than swearing off the surface for life and making all sorts of unfounded claims that dirt horses won't be able to run on it.