Champagne & Frizette ... Who's Kidding Whom?

Here we have two "G1" stakes races ... and ...

... only one filly in the Frizette has started more than twice ... and only 4 of 10 colts in the Champagne have started three times.

Can anyone honestly say that they can "handicap" these races ... or is everyone just reduced to speculation, guesswork, and reliance on inside information? Who can say that they've developed a deep personal interest in any of these horses?

How sad it is then ... that G1 races run in mid-October ... are so devoid of any meaningful past performances or opportunities to develop a personal attachment.

When Cicade won the Frizette in 1961 ... she was making her 15th start. The sport has declined dreadfully since then.

[randallscott35]

One of the reasons these races should lose their Grade 1 rating.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Here we have two "G1" stakes races ... and ...

... only one filly in the Frizette has started more than twice ... and only 4 of 10 colts in the Champagne have started three times.

Can anyone honestly say that they can "handicap" these races ... or is everyone just reduced to speculation, guesswork, and reliance on inside information? Who can say that they've developed a deep personal interest in any of these horses?

How sad it is then ... that G1 races run in mid-October ... are so devoid of any meaningful past performances or opportunities to develop a personal attachment.

When Cicade won the Frizette in 1961 ... she was making her 15th start. The sport has declined dreadfully since then.

BB,
Its wrong to criticize these races. Two year olds no longer debut much in the spring, too hard to keep in shape all year. because they don't really get going in earnest until August, there aren't any allowance races to run in. They just write stakes races for the most part. After you break your maiden, with no allowance races to go in, what can you do? Has there even been an allowance race for two year olds this fall?!!! Trainers and owners have to play within the confines or reality. I love tradition, but just wanting the days of yesteryear to reappear won't make that so. And trainers can't run in allowance races that don't exist.

Originally Posted by oracle80

BB,
Its wrong to criticize these races. Two year olds no longer debut much in the spring, too hard to keep in shape all year. because they don't really get going in earnest until August, there aren't any allowance races to run in. They just write stakes races for the most part. After you break your maiden, with no allowance races to go in, what can you do? Has there even been an allowance race for two year olds this fall?!!! Trainers and owners have to play within the confines or reality. I love tradition, but just wanting the days of yesteryear to reappear won't make that so. And trainers can't run in allowance races that don't exist.

Sure ...

... but as Randall said ... take away that ridiculous G1.

And what does this almost total lack of past performances do for the game? How do you develop an attachment to horses who go straight from a 5.5f MSW at Delaware to a "G1" 8f at Belmont?

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Just came home in 28 for the final quarter in the Frizette. Wow. I can run faster than that.

And they were running WITH A STRONG WIND down the stretch.

This had to be the worst Frizette ever ... and possibly the worst G1 race in the history of the world.

A very sore (as in "ouch") looking bunch of fillies to boot.....

[Cajungator26]

My pick finished 2nd.

We'll see where my Champagne pick ends up (Liquidity.)

[Rupert Pupkin]

The best 2 year old filly I've seen this year is a filly named Zada Belle. It's really not even close. She is the best by far. She broke her maiden on Friday at Santa Anita. She looks like an absolute freak.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The best 2 year old filly I've seen this year is a filly named Zada Belle. It's really not even close. She is the best by far. She broke her maiden on Friday at Santa Anita. She looks like an absolute freak.

Yeah, she is fast....got a 98 Beyere for that effort....I agree she is immensely talented but you won't see her running beyond one turn...she's clearly a sprinter...

RP, you don't like Dreaming of Anna?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah she was awesome friday. Super fast. Do you think she is going to stretch out?

I don't think she'll have any problem stretching out. She doesn't look like a sprinter at all. Did you guys see the way she's built? She's a big, tall, long-striding filly.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I don't think she'll have any problem stretching out. She doesn't look like a sprinter at all. Did you guys see the way she's built? She's a big, tall, long-striding filly.

Yeah, but based on her pedigree and brilliance I doubt she goes very far effectively....just my opinion though.....good horses can sometimes overcome that...Madcap shouldn't have ever been able to go 1 1/8-miles but she almost won the freakin Oaks because she was just that brilliant....

You never know I guess....I'll say this though. I had a similar thought about the Carson City filly Ralph Nicks ran yesterday in the Frizette.....she was a Carson City trying to go a mile (which we know is a big stretch for his progeny 99% of the time) but I bet her because she didn't look at all like your typical Carson City horse...she had a lot more scope to her and took more from the Deputy Minister side (the dam) - so I bet her...

...needless to say, when the smoke cleared she proved she was a sprinter regardless of her bulid and was walking the final furlong of the race and ran a horrible third....

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Yeah, but based on her pedigree and brilliance I doubt she goes very far effectively....just my opinion though.....good horses can sometimes overcome that...Madcap shouldn't have ever been able to go 1 1/8-miles but she almost won the freakin Oaks because she was just that brilliant....

You never know I guess....I'll say this though. I had a similar thought about the Carson City filly Ralph Nicks ran yesterday in the Frizette.....she was a Carson City trying to go a mile (which we know is a big stretch for his progeny 99% of the time) but I bet her because she didn't look at all like your typical Carson City horse...she had a lot more scope to her and took more from the Deputy Minister side (the dam) - so I bet her...

...needless to say, when the smoke cleared she proved she was a sprinter regardless of her bulid and was walking the final furlong of the race and ran a horrible third....

Pollard's Vision was by Carson City. He won plenty of times at 1 1/8 miles. I don't konw if he ever won at 1 1/4 miles.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Pollard's Vision was by Carson City. He won plenty of times at 1 1/8 miles. I don't konw if he ever won at 1 1/4 miles.

So was Balto Star, who won at 1 1/2 miles...it happens, but statistics say that most Indian Charlies out of a Carson City female family won't be going very much further than 7-8 panels....

we'll see...I do think she as a bright future though and was impressed by her race....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Yeah, but based on her pedigree

Dammit who showed the horse her pedigree?

Now she will know she cant run long.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Guys, I'm sure you recognized this, but that filly is very special. Jesus Christ, what a performance first time out! She was never even asked but she looked like she was giving it her all. She is so much more physically mature than all the other fillies that it is unreal. She is HUGE but light, and such a lovely horse.

Thanks for pointing her out Rupert. I think that she might can get some distance based on that performance. I'm in LOVE...

She took my breath away...