My theory and feelings on Polytrack

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff?

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff?

The sad part is that its been embraced by euro trainers who could never figure out how to excel with dirt horses, they simply can't train them like our guys can.
This stuff was created in England as a suitable winter time work surface for GRASS HORSES!!!
Its a scam.
Agree with all you said. Horses didn't run wild and evolve over the millions of years on tires.

Over/under on lengths beaten by Asi Siempre if she actually goes in the Distaff, I'm setting it at 22.

Keeneland's poly surface sure has a knack for making horses look like they're running in a skating rink. Brahms Lullaby was sliding all over the stretch in the last race.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Keeneland's poly surface sure has a knack for making horses look like they're running in a skating rink. Brahms Lullaby was sliding all over the stretch in the last race.

Pillow, jocks and trainers are already saying that many, if not most horses who are true dirt horses don't grab it and change the way that they run.
At this time you won't read any harsh comments, because they fear repercussions by the gestapo who is pumping this stuff up if they voice it.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Pillow, jocks and trainers are already saying that many, if not most horses who are true dirt horses don't grab it and change the way that they run.
At this time you won't read any harsh comments, because they fear repercussions by the gestapo who is pumping this stuff up if they voice it.

I know if I were in their shoes I would do the exact same thing. They risk too much speaking out against this madness.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Pillow, jocks and trainers are already saying that many, if not most horses who are true dirt horses don't grab it and change the way that they run.
At this time you won't read any harsh comments, because they fear repercussions by the gestapo who is pumping this stuff up if they voice it.

Yeah, I hate to be the condescnding media here, but I have to much pride to sit back and alloow everybody to overhype this stuff like its the greatest thing we've ever invented in thsi sport....it makes me sick everytime I hear it and it wouldn't be fair to the horse racing fans on this forum is i didn't give my views on it....

I hate to be the devil's advocate and no I'm not trying to 'rock the boat', but I really don't like this stuff.....can we just go back to running on the dirt, please?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Over/under on lengths beaten by Asi Siempre if she actually goes in the Distaff, I'm setting it at 22.

Yeah, I like her and I like her sire, but she'll get drowned in the Distaff....

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Over/under on lengths beaten by Asi Siempre if she actually goes in the Distaff, I'm setting it at 22.

She'll only lose by 11, they'll all be plodding home in the end.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

Cunningham I thought you knew something about the Natural History of horses. Oracle you too.
For at least the past 400 years humans have intestively bred horses to perform many functions. The draft horses, the pack animals etc... You and I on this board have taken a particular liking to those bred to run on tracks. Horses did not evolve naturally to run in ovals on the dirt. WE, human beings, have selectively bred these animals to perform their current functions. Certain behaviors such as social herd heirarchy and other behaviors are highly ingrained. But we, human beings, have drastically changed the physique and biomechanics of these animals thru selective breeding. The same can be done for polytrack. Why all the fuss right now Cunningham? Its not like selective breeding just started with thoroughbreds. As far as God creating the current form of animal we are looking at... oh boy, I'll stop there. Read the above. Look at what HUMANS have done thru selective breeding to Dogs, Corn, etc... the list is endless.

And I am withholding opinions on Polytrack until more data is in. And far as the complaints about the crud getting into the horses lungs and causing major problems, etc... thats laughable. Ask any vet who knows what they are doing and ask them how much dirt gets in horses lungs. When complaints are made about polytrac that are patently false, the people who put forth these claims make themselves look to be disingenious. And then when one cries wolf when the wolf is actually present, one is not taken seriously.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Actually, pgardn, the Thoroughbred originated from the Godolphin Arabian, the Byerley Turk, and the Darley Arabian. All Thoroughbreds (in fact all light or hot-blooded horses) today are descendants of Arabians, who have been bred through the ages to be desert animals. They ran on desert sand.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Actually, pgardn, the Thoroughbred originated from the Godolphin Arabian, the Byerley Turk, and the Darley Arabian. All Thoroughbreds, (in fact all light or hot-blooded horses) today are descendants of Arabians, who have been bred through the ages to be desert animals. They ran on desert sand.

Thank you Miss Roses, I know that. But the thoroughbred is not the only "breed" of horse. I think you understand what I am saying. SELECTIVE BREEDING to suit function. Not God's will. Look at the big draft animals. How many horses around before human beings were lugging around big sleds of lumber?

Its kinda like I am getting the feeling you are saying God made these animals for our pleasure to watch run in an oval around a dirt track. That is... well, to be nice, more than silly. I understand people do not like change. And the industry may be jumping on the stuff too fast for what some people who dont like change are used to. I can understand that.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Its kinda like I am getting the feeling you are saying God made these animals for our pleasure to watch run in an oval around a dirt track. That is... well, to be nice, more than silly. I understand people do not like change. And the industry may be jumping on the stuff too fast for what some people who dont like change are used to. I can understand that.

If this was directed towards me, that is not the case at all. You are assuming that I have ideas that I don't actually hold. You implied in your post that the first horses did not run on sand, and that just isn't true. I was just pointing out that the first hot-blooded horses were those that ran on desert sand, not on grass or polytrack. Sure, we've selectively bred Thoroughbreds for increased speed throughout the decades. But, that doesn't not change the fact that the first horses ran on sand. Also, the species of Equus caballus is a lot more than 400 years old.

I stand firm against polytrack because I believe that there are better ways to handle the issue of breakdowns in racehorses. All polytrack does is cover up the REAL problems of racing like breeding, drugs, and crooked training and management methods.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

If this was directed towards me, that is not the case at all. You are assuming that I have ideas that I don't actually hold. You implied in your post that the first horses did not run on sand, and that just isn't true. I was just pointing out that the first hot-blooded horses were those that ran on desert sand, not on grass or polytrack. Sure, we've selectively bred Thoroughbreds for increased speed throughout the decades. But, that doesn't not change the fact that the first horses ran on sand. Also, the species of Equus caballus is a lot more than 400 years old.

I stand firm against polytrack because I believe that there are better ways to handle the issue of breakdowns in racehorses. All polytrack does is cover up the REAL problems of racing like breeding, drugs, and crooked training and management methods.

No it was not. Cunninghams first post. Sorry.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Its kinda like I am getting the feeling you are saying God made these animals for our pleasure to watch run in an oval around a dirt track. That is... well, to be nice, more than silly. I understand people do not like change. And the industry may be jumping on the stuff too fast for what some people who dont like change are used to. I can understand that.

No, thats not what I'm saying, genius...follow along little Joey:

God gave frogs long tongues to catch their prey, he gave lizards a green/camillian (sp?) complextion to hide from its predators, he gave bears long claws to hunt in the wild and creeks for food, ETC. ETC. ETC..... could go on for days.....

In terms of MOBILITY, he gave fish fins to swim through their climate, which is water, HE GAVE HORSES THE HOOVES AND BIO-MECHANICS TO RUN OVER DIRT AND GRASS, PERIOD....

Understand now?

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

No, thats not what I'm saying, genius...follow along little Joey:

God gave frogs long tongues to catch their prey, he gave lizards a green/camillian (sp?) complextion to hide from its predators, he gave bears long claws to hunt in the wild and creeks for food, ETC. ETC. ETC..... could go on for days.....

In terms of MOBILITY, he gave fish fins to swim through their climate, which is water, HE GAVE HORSES THE HOOVES AND BIO-MECHANICS TO RUN OVER DIRT AND GRASS, PERIOD....

Understand now?

What's god got to do with any of this??

Originally Posted by pba1817

What's god got to do with any of this??

Do you believe he created you? Do you believe he created horses? If not, I understand....you don't apply to this conversation if you don't believe in your creator....It requires that basis to drive my arguement home....the 'Big Bang' theory doesn't work here....

Originally Posted by pgardn

But we, human beings, have drastically changed the physique and biomechanics of these animals thru selective breeding. The same can be done for polytrack.

So, what if Storm Cats and A.P. Indys don't like it? Do we now stand them for $5K stud fee and weed then out of the Thoroughbred chain?

Why should we have to dillute and re-tool our breeding to tailor it to a new surface? It is going to screw up the legacy and classic bloodlines of our industrys greats - wrecking tradition after tradition and screwing with our history and heritage....

I strongly disagree with you....I don't want our breed to change - the same way as I don't want 5'5" 160-pound guys excelling in football if the NFL were to hypothetically change their surface of playing field from grass or artificial turf to playing on cotton pillows, would you?

Maybe Lemon Drops Kid will be the leading sire on that crap and Storm Cat will become an after-thought...do you really want that to happen?

I have never missed the Saratoga meet as much as I do now.

I have never looked forward to the Churchill fall meet as much as I have now, regardless of the Breeders Cup.

Hollywood Park? Whooo if you think it's bad at Keeneland right now just wait until opening day out there.