Mugged by Reality

[Downthestretch55]

I'm not going to debate this one...I only put it up because I think some might wish to be informed. For sure, many will not agree.
The truth seems a bitter pill to swallow for many, sad to say.
Read it and debate among yourselves. Again, I have no further comment.

http://www.thephoenix.com/article_ektid25289.aspx

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

I'm not going to debate this one...I only put it up because I think some might wish to be informed. For sure, many will not agree.
The truth seems a bitter pill to swallow for many, sad to say.
Read it and debate among yourselves. Again, I have no further comment.

http://www.thephoenix.com/article_ektid25289.aspx

Iraq is a mess, I see no immediate solution there because there appears to be a never-ending supply of folks dedicated to the failure of any democratic state.
North Korea is under the leadership of a semi-madman, Kim is dangerous but not completely insane, the Chinese can and will control him. They have no interest in nukes in North Korea which would mean either an increased US presence in the region or development of same by South Korea and Japan. They will do it quietly and we'll never see it but they will control him...the Chinese greatest fear is destabilization in North Korea...the devil they know is better than the one they don't!
Iran...my greatest personal concern! I lived most of my life during the cold war and was comforted by knowing that the Soviet leaders were rational human beings who wanted their children and grandchildren to live as much as we do! It was a dangerous time, especially those few dreadful days in the waters of Cuba when world destruction was one misstep away...but sanity prevailed! With the leaders of Iran, I hold no such illusion...if they have the bomb, they will use it...and Israel will destroy them...and then...?????

[GenuineRisk]

It's an interesting point you bring up, Somer, that the difference with the Cold War was that the Soviets were working off essentially the same value system Americans were (strong national identity, war a bad thing and to be avoided). I think you're right-- MAD works only when both parties are playing on the same field. Which we were back then. Now, religious zealots who think they're going to be rewarded in the afterlife? That's a different playing field. For a sport I don't ever want to watch.

In a horrible way, can you blame North Korea? Kim Jong Il sees Hussein say, "I don't have any WMDs" and the US goes in anyway. Now North Korea detonates a nuclear device and the US's response is, well... not much of anything. I think, from his point of view, if the US is going to march in regardless, might as well have a weapon. Because if you do, the US clearly won't go in to attack. How stupid do we look now?

So, North Korea has nukes and we have no habeus corpus anymore. You know, Osama wanted 9/11 to help destroy America. And he's succeeding. And he hasn't had to do a darn thing since. We're doing it to ourselves. So who's really winning this war?

[skippy3481]

Its had to find an article that isent biased. This one obviously is. I dont agree with the whole north korea part, but they are quickly becoming the someone that everyone is afraid of. A madman with a bomb who is not afraid to use it. Scary stuff.

[somerfrost]

[quote=GenuineRisk]It's an interesting point you bring up, Somer, that the difference with the Cold War was that the Soviets were working off essentially the same value system Americans were (strong national identity, war a bad thing and to be avoided). I think you're right-- MAD works only when both parties are playing on the same field. Which we were back then. Now, religious zealots who think they're going to be rewarded in the afterlife? That's a different playing field. For a sport I don't ever want to watch.

In a horrible way, can you blame North Korea? Kim Jong Il sees Hussein say, "I don't have any WMDs" and the US goes in anyway. Now North Korea detonates a nuclear device and the US's response is, well... not much of anything. I think, from his point of view, if the US is going to march in regardless, might as well have a weapon. Because if you do, the US clearly won't go in to attack. How stupid do we look now?

Well, a rational person would count noses...or at least warheads...lets see, I can build 4-8 nukes without long range missiles to reach the US, I can do damage locally for sure but then I'd face the US nuclear arsenal of what? Thousands of bombs each 10x more powerful than mine...more like 100x maybe...hummm, doesn't seem like those few bombs would be much good! He's not building for defense but for blackmail!