Paris wtf

[Danzig]

Get to the gym and the news is on, shootings, explosions, hostages. Damn


http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/french-po...xplosion-paris

[Easy Goer Otis]

My daughter is going to University in Paris. Fortunately, she was on break and took a road trip to Berlin yesterday. Not sure I want her to go back there. There will be a severe backlash by the nationalists. Things are going to get very ugly in the coming days.

O

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Easy Goer Otis

My daughter is going to University in Paris. Fortunately, she was on break and took a road trip to Berlin yesterday. Not sure I want her to go back there. There will be a severe backlash by the nationalists. Things are going to get very ugly in the coming days.

O

oh, wow...glad to hear she wasn't nearby. just a horrible thing to have happen. I will never, ever understand that process that drives people to do such things.

a few years back, my oldest was going thru a rough patch. one long discussion I had with him....I told him, what you're going thru now is a result of choices you have made. there are always consequences when you decide a path to take.

what have we, as a country, done? choices made by past administrations, and present, has the middle east where it is now...the upheaval, the violence, the terrorists, isis, the refufees. this is our fault.
now, it may have happened there anyway, when one considers the history of that region, especially during and since ww1, and then ww2, the end of empires in the first ww, the drawing of boundaries, the giving of land that wasn't really a euro powers place to give. but this recent stuff-we have to own this. and we, and the other nations so disposed, have to fix this. it won't go away on its own.
the question is, how?
the un? the arab league? a coalition? that ought to be interesting to try to get together, since nations over there might look at religious divisions as a larger issue than terrorism. sunni, Shiite, isis, al Qaeda...it's a nightmare.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Danzig

oh, wow...glad to hear she wasn't nearby. just a horrible thing to have happen. I will never, ever understand that process that drives people to do such things.

a few years back, my oldest was going thru a rough patch. one long discussion I had with him....I told him, what you're going thru now is a result of choices you have made. there are always consequences when you decide a path to take.

what have we, as a country, done? choices made by past administrations, and present, has the middle east where it is now...the upheaval, the violence, the terrorists, isis, the refufees. this is our fault.
now, it may have happened there anyway, when one considers the history of that region, especially during and since ww1, and then ww2, the end of empires in the first ww, the drawing of boundaries, the giving of land that wasn't really a euro powers place to give. but this recent stuff-we have to own this. and we, and the other nations so disposed, have to fix this. it won't go away on its own.
the question is, how?
the un? the arab league? a coalition? that ought to be interesting to try to get together, since nations over there might look at religious divisions as a larger issue than terrorism. sunni, Shiite, isis, al Qaeda...it's a nightmare.

Wow!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Wow!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...sis-syria-iraq

A bit of background, although it only goes back a few years, when really, the West has been messing with the Middle East for decades and decades.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...sis-syria-iraq

A bit of background, although it only goes back a few years, when really, the West has been messing with the Middle East for decades and decades.

hell of a read, isn't it?

and then there's

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...-isis-fighters

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Wow!

yep, wow.
who'd have thought we'd come to such a pretty pass...but it's time to own what we've contributed, and then figure out what to do about it.
now, I'm sure you didn't mean wow as in you agree, or that it just hit you...I know you mean this as 'how dare I?'. but yes, I dare, because it's true.
who is isis? who constititutes their leadership? why is Syria in upheaval, or Iraq? who created the chaos over there in the years since we went over there to remove saddam, while ignoring why we didn't remove him in gulf 91, because we knew them that it would cause just what the hell we have now.
you go back and look over the history of ww1, the fall of the ottomans, the allies in the middle east and how they got treated after by euros, ww2, borders drawn by people from Europe, Russia vs afganistan and what did (Osama bin laden said we'll let the u.s. help us get rid of the soviets, and then we'll get rid of the us), we supported Iraq vs iran, because whoever the soviets were against, we would support...while ignoring just who it was we supported!
so, you go study all that, and then you come back and tell me how I'm wrong in placing blame where it belongs.
did we actually arm the terrorists and get them to attack? no. but we sure all hell have contributed substantially to all that is going on over there, and all the consequences that come from our crap foreign policy decisions over the decades.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yep, wow.
who'd have thought we'd come to such a pretty pass...but it's time to own what we've contributed, and then figure out what to do about it.
now, I'm sure you didn't mean wow as in you agree, or that it just hit you...I know you mean this as 'how dare I?'. but yes, I dare, because it's true.
who is isis? who constititutes their leadership? why is Syria in upheaval, or Iraq? who created the chaos over there in the years since we went over there to remove saddam, while ignoring why we didn't remove him in gulf 91, because we knew them that it would cause just what the hell we have now.
you go back and look over the history of ww1, the fall of the ottomans, the allies in the middle east and how they got treated after by euros, ww2, borders drawn by people from Europe, Russia vs afganistan and what did (Osama bin laden said we'll let the u.s. help us get rid of the soviets, and then we'll get rid of the us), we supported Iraq vs iran, because whoever the soviets were against, we would support...while ignoring just who it was we supported!
so, you go study all that, and then you come back and tell me how I'm wrong in placing blame where it belongs.
did we actually arm the terrorists and get them to attack? no. but we sure all hell have contributed substantially to all that is going on over there, and all the consequences that come from our crap foreign policy decisions over the decades.

you sound like my dear friend Nick Kling now, there was a handicapper!