NYRA Fanchise Recommendation

[SentToStud]

May come today from the ad hoc state panel. OF course, it's non-binding as far as the legislature and governor are concerned. If I were a horse analyst, it'd look like this:

If awarded today:

Bidder Opening Line Current Odds
NYRA 3/5 6/5
Empire 3/1 8/5
Excelsior 3/1 2/1

Committee Recommendation Today?
Yes +150
No -160

I'm sticking with NYRA. Too much MGM money/Kirkorian/gaming expertise.

Slow Tuesday.

[blackthroatedwind]

There is zero chance NYRA will get the recomendation of the Ad-Hoc committee. None.

Their recomendation also carries no weight as the decision on the future of the franchise will be made by Eliot Spitzer and I am quite sure he is not particularly interested in the position of George Pataki's committee.

[ELA]

What really concerns me about this stage of the game -- which is truly crucial -- is the amount of due dilligence put forth by the committee. I don't want to sound like a jerk and appear to be a heckler from the sidelines, but my concerns surround whether or not this committee is truly in a position to make a recommendation. Even though it is not binding on anyone or anything and it is merely a recommendation, can they make an educated recommendation.

The aspersion cast or appearence can have potentiall far reaching ramifications (kind of like when Peter Jennings reported that Al Gore is the next President of the US. While it didn't go that way, the mere reporting can sway the election).

How many meetings have they had? How much time has the accounting firm/consultant actually spent reviewing the bids, financials, etc. Did they conduct interviews? There should only be about a hundred or so more questions asked here?

Anyway, all that aside (and that is a great deal to push aside) -- there is aspect/question here -- does the recommendation sit until Spitzer takes office and does he get/take/have the final say over who gets the franchise? Does the current legislators try and get something done before year end (there has been talk and rumors that the legislators could meet one more time before year end and sneak this in)?

What if Spitzer wants time to re-analyze and re-examine this entire situtation? So I have one last question . . . WHERE ARE THE FRIGGIN' VLT'S??? Enough political BS already.

Eric

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ELA

What really concerns me about this stage of the game -- which is truly crucial -- is the amount of due dilligence put forth by the committee. I don't want to sound like a jerk and appear to be a heckler from the sidelines, but my concerns surround whether or not this committee is truly in a position to make a recommendation. Even though it is not binding on anyone or anything and it is merely a recommendation, can they make an educated recommendation.

The aspersion cast or appearence can have potentiall far reaching ramifications (kind of like when Peter Jennings reported that Al Gore is the next President of the US. While it didn't go that way, the mere reporting can sway the election).

How many meetings have they had? How much time has the accounting firm/consultant actually spent reviewing the bids, financials, etc. Did they conduct interviews? There should only be about a hundred or so more questions asked here?

Anyway, all that aside (and that is a great deal to push aside) -- there is aspect/question here -- does the recommendation sit until Spitzer takes office and does he get/take/have the final say over who gets the franchise? Does the current legislators try and get something done before year end (there has been talk and rumors that the legislators could meet one more time before year end and sneak this in)?

What if Spitzer wants time to re-analyze and re-examine this entire situtation? So I have one last question . . . WHERE ARE THE FRIGGIN' VLT'S??? Enough political BS already.

Eric

Eric, it is a RECOMMENDATION and is binding in absolutely no way.

In other words, it's meaningless.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Eric, it is a RECOMMENDATION and is binding in absolutely no way.

In other words, it's meaningless.

Excactly, in fact the same game will be played again next year. Speaking to Nader he is realistic about this recommendation, i.e. they won't get it. But it doesn't matter. I think they have an excellent chance in the long run to keep it....He also said that relations with Spitzer were improving quite a bit.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Excactly, in fact the same game will be played again next year. Speaking to Nader he is realistic about this recommendation, i.e. they won't get it. But it doesn't matter. I think they have an excellent chance in the long run to keep it....He also said that relations with Spitzer were improving quite a bit.

I think the game will be played quite differently next year.

They can't get the recomendation. Basically claiming land ownership disqualifies them.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think the game will be played quite differently next year.

They can't get the recomendation. Basically claiming land ownership disqualifies them.

Andy, who is "They" and "them" -- ??? Thanks.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Eric, it is a RECOMMENDATION and is binding in absolutely no way.

In other words, it's meaningless.

Andy, I agree and know that. My point, or should I say my concern is -- is it truly meaningless? Could there be ramifications, lawsuits, who knows what -- if the committee makes a recommendation, Spitzer moves into his office next year and as he is unpacking says "thanks for the recommendation, but I am going with . . ." (a different bidder). How does that play out?

At this stage I think the last thing the racing industry needs -- nationwide -- is more factionalization. It is not good for the industry in any way, shape or form. I do hope it's meaningless -- with NO ramifications.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

Andy, I agree and know that. My point, or should I say my concern is -- is it truly meaningless? Could there be ramifications, lawsuits, who knows what -- if the committee makes a recommendation, Spitzer moves into his office next year and as he is unpacking says "thanks for the recommendation, but I am going with . . ." (a different bidder). How does that play out?

At this stage I think the last thing the racing industry needs -- nationwide -- is more factionalization. It is not good for the industry in any way, shape or form. I do hope it's meaningless -- with NO ramifications.

Eric

Ad Hoc committees can be powerful depending who is on them. But basically the "gov't" will do what they want and ignore an independent ad hoc.

This whole thing just stinks, and has for so long.
Last night I'm channel surfing and get to our OTB channel and on teh screen is Yonkers raceway. They were closed for like 18 months for "remodeling".
The point is that heres this harness track that was on the verge of extinction and here they are up and running with slots.
Saratoga Harness has had them forever it seems, Vernon Downs was closed and shuttered and bankrupt(its in central NY state) and now they are also open and racing with slots humming.
Monticello is like the worst place on the planet, and they have slots up and running(harness track about 90 miles away from NYC), Finger Lakes has had them a long time, and on my way home from Kentucky I pulled off the Buffalo exit to go to the harness track there for the first time in my life to catch the last few from Aqu and CD the day after the BC and to my shock, all these cars were in the parking lot and when I walked inside there were slots everywhere.
Yonkers, Monticello, Vernon Downs, Buffalo, Finger lakes, and Saratoga Harness all have slots in place but noone will approve NYRA's at Aqueduct? Where they would reap the most money?
Its been a disgusting display of politics and anyone with a brain can see that political forces motivated by special interest groups have done everything they can to try and force NYRA under. There is no way that these slots shouldn't be running, and thats sure not NYRA's fault. Its a disgrace.

Do you really think the VLTs is the cure for the financial problems the NYRA has? There is much more to the puzzle than the VLT issue. Certainly there are politcal issues taking place. But, I have asked this question 100x--why and how does the NYRA continue to lose money? If they cannot operate within their financial means now, what makes you think they will be able to operate within the financial means once VLTs are in place? Until the NYRA changes their business model they are going to continue to have financial problems with or without VLTs.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Do you really think the VLTs is the cure for the financial problems the NYRA has? There is much more to the puzzle than the VLT issue. Certainly there are politcal issues taking place. But, I have asked this question 100x--why and how does the NYRA continue to lose money? If they cannot operate within their financial means now, what makes you think they will be able to operate within the financial means once VLTs are in place? Until the NYRA changes their business model they are going to continue to have financial problems with or without VLTs.

Do you have any idea at all what kind of money the ONLY slot palace in NYC would take in?
Are you kidding me?
They coulda been in two years ago and purses would already be huge.
These politicos have hurt the trainers, owners, municipalities, taxpayers, everyone.
WHy? Because every politician had a special interest group tossing money at them or rewards when they left office if they could help swing the new contract there way.
Problem was that even that became gridlocked, different politicians and factions trying to get the franchise to different folks. What a bunch of whores.
Don't think for two seconds any of these guys care about who actually gets the place or how they run it, they only want a care package of some sort sent to them "for their help and support".
In reality, Spitzer may help more than he can hurt NYRA. Two things Spitzer puts above everything else, control and power. He feasts on them.
If you just give away the franchise to a private group he loses the large majority of his control and power over their actions. I just can't see him doing that and he doesn't need a care package. Hes now Governor after being Attorney General and has much larger political ambitions. Hes all set. He can seek higher office, stay Governor for years if he chooses(very hard to unseat a dem incumbent in NYS) or leave the political life and become a mega lobbyist some day.
His biggest issues will be revenue, control, and power when it comes to awarding the Franchise. Guess who that favors?

Your first couple of sentences says it all in your statement - "Do you have any idea at all what kind of money the ONLY slot palace in NYC would take in?
Are you kidding me?
They coulda been in two years ago and purses would already be huge." This is where the problem lies. You cannot bump up purses if you are losing money. The NYRA still has an under funded pension and they owe Suffolk County back taxes (unless these were paid up to date since the last time I read an article). Until the NYRA is able to operate under the financial model with or without VLTs then they are never going to be as great as they could be. I am all for increase in purses, but you have to make sure your operating costs are taken care of first.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Your first couple of sentences says it all in your statement - "Do you have any idea at all what kind of money the ONLY slot palace in NYC would take in?
Are you kidding me?
They coulda been in two years ago and purses would already be huge." This is where the problem lies. You cannot bump up purses if you are losing money. The NYRA still has an under funded pension and they owe Suffolk County back taxes (unless these were paid up to date since the last time I read an article). Until the NYRA is able to operate under the financial model with or without VLTs then they are never going to be as great as they could be. I am all for increase in purses, but you have to make sure your operating costs are taken care of first.

Why would they owe Suffolk County taxes?
They operate nothing in Suffolk.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Your first couple of sentences says it all in your statement - "Do you have any idea at all what kind of money the ONLY slot palace in NYC would take in?
Are you kidding me?
They coulda been in two years ago and purses would already be huge." This is where the problem lies. You cannot bump up purses if you are losing money. The NYRA still has an under funded pension and they owe Suffolk County back taxes (unless these were paid up to date since the last time I read an article). Until the NYRA is able to operate under the financial model with or without VLTs then they are never going to be as great as they could be. I am all for increase in purses, but you have to make sure your operating costs are taken care of first.

I could be wrong, however, I think VLT revenue -- AND changes in legislation, tax laws, etc. -- would allow NYRA to operate more efficiently and effectively. Being deficit funded and operating in the red costs more than operating at healthy, normal, in the black, etc. levels.

I think people tend to collapse financial standing and health with blame and competence. Often that works, but not always.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Do you really think the VLTs is the cure for the financial problems the NYRA has? There is much more to the puzzle than the VLT issue. Certainly there are politcal issues taking place. But, I have asked this question 100x--why and how does the NYRA continue to lose money? If they cannot operate within their financial means now, what makes you think they will be able to operate within the financial means once VLTs are in place? Until the NYRA changes their business model they are going to continue to have financial problems with or without VLTs.

Yes, there is so much more to the puzzle. However, it is a piece of that puzzle. Interestingly enough, one piece of the puzzle does not complete or solve the puzzle, so no it's not the answer in and of itself. I do not view the business model as a problem. I view the inability to operate within the current legislation, tax laws, agreements, etc. as a problem. Of course it's not that simple either.

While VLT's may not be the end all/cure all cure for NYRA's financial problems -- what is the cure is a global solution. The first part of that solution is "alternative revenue" or income. This is what Keeneland has with the sales company. The VLT revenue will act, early on, as a subsidy for racing operations, purses, backstretch improvement, etc. As long as you don't have a Finger Lakes situation -- where management opts to spend money on the VLT side of the facility as opposed to the racing side of the facility, primarily because they are making a ROI/ROR decision. Keep in mind that Finger Lakes and the ownership is a for-profit model and structure -- this will hopefully be beneficial to the racing game. This is from "the outside in".

The second part is a wide reaching change in legislation, tax rates and various other aspects of the laws and agreements that impinge upon the sport and business of racing -- OTB's, simulcasting revenue/sharing, etc. This too is from "the outside in".

The third component is changing the industry mindset. Changing how the industry and racetracks are run, how the sport is marketed, how the product and the sport is positioned, etc. There is competition for dollars today that quite possibly could have never been imaginesd. The industry must act and react to that, yet they have never really done so. This portion is looking from "the inside out" so to speak.

The sport has changed. The business has changed. Everything in and around it has changed. So must the approach and mindset.

Eric

[philcski]

Originally Posted by oracle80

This whole thing just stinks, and has for so long.
Last night I'm channel surfing and get to our OTB channel and on teh screen is Yonkers raceway. They were closed for like 18 months for "remodeling".
The point is that heres this harness track that was on the verge of extinction and here they are up and running with slots.
Saratoga Harness has had them forever it seems, Vernon Downs was closed and shuttered and bankrupt(its in central NY state) and now they are also open and racing with slots humming.
Monticello is like the worst place on the planet, and they have slots up and running(harness track about 90 miles away from NYC), Finger Lakes has had them a long time, and on my way home from Kentucky I pulled off the Buffalo exit to go to the harness track there for the first time in my life to catch the last few from Aqu and CD the day after the BC and to my shock, all these cars were in the parking lot and when I walked inside there were slots everywhere.
Yonkers, Monticello, Vernon Downs, Buffalo, Finger lakes, and Saratoga Harness all have slots in place but noone will approve NYRA's at Aqueduct? Where they would reap the most money?
Its been a disgusting display of politics and anyone with a brain can see that political forces motivated by special interest groups have done everything they can to try and force NYRA under. There is no way that these slots shouldn't be running, and thats sure not NYRA's fault. Its a disgrace.

Not to mention Tioga Downs near binghamton, which had been shuttered for literally like 25 years, now they're rocking with the slots and it took a grand total of like 6 months from the approval process start to the start of racing again and the slots being turned on. I hate slots, but they need to be put in and I agree with you that the political forces in this state are a JOKE and a FRAUD. God i hate politics. I also agree that this cannot be NYRA's fault at this point...

Originally Posted by philcski

Not to mention Tioga Downs near binghamton, which had been shuttered for literally like 25 years, now they're rocking with the slots and it took a grand total of like 6 months from the approval process start to the start of racing again and the slots being turned on. I hate slots, but they need to be put in and I agree with you that the political forces in this state are a JOKE and a FRAUD. God i hate politics. I also agree that this cannot be NYRA's fault at this point...

No ****. How could it be NYRA's fault? MGM personally has fulfilled all questions that these phony boards have asked for, and NYRA has been raring to go.
The bankruptcy thing was an absolutely brilliant play by NYRA. These politicans are so ****ing stupid that they thought they had NYRA by the balls and thought they had to take the bailout money they offered them last month that came with more strings than a puppet show.
NYRA simply said no thanks. Politicians realized that they had a hell of lot more to lose with a NYRA race stoppage than NYRA did. Try explaining to all the constituents about the lost income and tax revenue and all the folks who lose jobs why its not "their fault" and it was mean old NYRA's.
NYRA stared them down and won.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by oracle80

This whole thing just stinks, and has for so long.
Last night I'm channel surfing and get to our OTB channel and on teh screen is Yonkers raceway. They were closed for like 18 months for "remodeling".
The point is that heres this harness track that was on the verge of extinction and here they are up and running with slots.
Saratoga Harness has had them forever it seems, Vernon Downs was closed and shuttered and bankrupt(its in central NY state) and now they are also open and racing with slots humming.
Monticello is like the worst place on the planet, and they have slots up and running(harness track about 90 miles away from NYC), Finger Lakes has had them a long time, and on my way home from Kentucky I pulled off the Buffalo exit to go to the harness track there for the first time in my life to catch the last few from Aqu and CD the day after the BC and to my shock, all these cars were in the parking lot and when I walked inside there were slots everywhere.
Yonkers, Monticello, Vernon Downs, Buffalo, Finger lakes, and Saratoga Harness all have slots in place but noone will approve NYRA's at Aqueduct? Where they would reap the most money?
Its been a disgusting display of politics and anyone with a brain can see that political forces motivated by special interest groups have done everything they can to try and force NYRA under. There is no way that these slots shouldn't be running, and thats sure not NYRA's fault. Its a disgrace.

I said it from the beginning, THIS WHOLE THING is out of politics in N.Y.
Now, that "starts day #1" governor" will be in power, things SHOULD straight out or will they??? I STILL haven't found anybody who thinks NYRA's on-track product is so bad, so why the need for change? Will it REALLY be better if someone else runs N.Y. racing? I still think, things "down the road" WILL be worse! As for the horseman, NOTHING is stopping those who don't like racing in N.Y. run by NYRA to go elsewhere. I've been around the game for 20 years, NYRA has been worse in that time more than the last six years. I really think that some on this site, have just an "axe" to grind with them. They ALWAYS complain about NYRA, but STILL benefit from them. Complain, complain...if you don't like it...don't play here! The politicians are to blame here and no one else. They think they'll get more of the "pie" with someone else running the show. If the "new people" fail, WHO will you NYRA haters blame next.....

Regardless, NYRA owns the land, buildings, improvements that are involved. They have been paying taxes on such for years with NO tax breaks whatsoever. NYRA obviously has made somebody mad enough to try to whack them.

I believe that the bankruptcy filing by NYRA was a defensive position to protect their assets (the tracks). This battle is far from over. Unfortunantly, New York racing is going to take the brunt of the damage, as is the entire industry.