Ripken Jr. & Gwynn elected to HOF, McGwire left out

[ninetoone]

Cal is my all time favorite...I hope he can enjoy the moment despite all of the other talk that is going on...

[Gander]

Mcgwire should be left out. The right decision was made. Congrats to Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken. They both deserve it and I think anyone with half a brain knows just because a specific era of baseball is tainted, it doesnt mean everybody who played during it is dirty. God knows when the time comes, Derek Jeter and Albert Pujols will be voted in first time around without anyone linking them to the dirty stuff, a la Mcwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and Bonds.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

Mcgwire should be left out. The right decision was made. Congrats to Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken. They both deserve it and I think anyone with half a brain knows just because a specific era of baseball is tainted, it doesnt mean everybody who played during it is dirty. God knows when the time comes, Derek Jeter and Albert Pujols will be voted in first time around without anyone linking them to the dirty stuff, a la Mcwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and Bonds.

maguires's #'s just aren't good enough to warrant getting in. so he set the home run in a season record--that will forever have a ? next to it...other than that, his stats aren't great--and hofer's should have great #'s.

[Danzig]

read the paper today, and the writer said 500 runs isn't quite the magic # it used to be.

big mac has 1100 fewer hits than bill buckner, 1000 less than tim raines, 400 fewer than todd zeile. fewer runs than fred mcgriff, joe carter, and andres galarraga. one gold glove, struck out once every 3.8 at bats and hit better than .300 once--that one time was when he played more than 100 games in a season. (all from todays ark dem gazette)...

there is a cloud of suspicion. you can't help but wonder if those 500 runs were aided. if so, what the heck is so special about it??

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

read the paper today, and the writer said 500 runs isn't quite the magic # it used to be.

big mac has 1100 fewer hits than bill buckner, 1000 less than tim raines, 400 fewer than todd zeile. fewer runs than fred mcgriff, joe carter, and andres galarraga. one gold glove, struck out once every 3.8 at bats and hit better than .300 once--that one time was when he played more than 100 games in a season. (all from todays ark dem gazette)...

there is a cloud of suspicion. you can't help but wonder if those 500 runs were aided. if so, what the heck is so special about it??

I think it's because MLB did such a lousy job on rules and testing up til 2003,and completely looked the other way about "greenies" for forever! All of a sudden, everyone is under suspicion....ex post facto....I just don't think you can throw the entire generation of MLB numbers out the window. 2003 and forward...everybody is warned, rules and suspensions laid down, play ball!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

I think it's because MLB did such a lousy job on rules and testing up til 2003,and completely looked the other way about "greenies" for forever! All of a sudden, everyone is under suspicion....ex post facto....I just don't think you can throw the entire generation of MLB numbers out the window. 2003 and forward...everybody is warned, rules and suspensions laid down, play ball!

i think you're right. but maybe (and i'm really just throwing this out here to get some feedback) the combo of ?'s about the legitimacy of his HR's, combined with less than HOF #'s elsewhere, was what kept him out of contention this year.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Aided or not they were hit in a time when they weren't testing, so according to rules he did nothing wrong. They started testing after he retired. And hitting 580 HR's is a great accomplishment. Now personally I think he was aided, but he is of course not the only one. And 500 Hr's always has been the magic number, like 300 pitching wins, or 3,000 K's. Hard for me to think that they will start not having this be the gold standard with him. he'll get in eventually.

are voters also waiting to see what happens with bonds? is MM worried at all-could he be involved in any way with any of this? i haven't heard anything that makes it look like that--but i'm not the biggest baseball fan either....

[timmgirvan]

A message for MM....to be sure!

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Aided or not they were hit in a time when they weren't testing, so according to rules he did nothing wrong. They started testing after he retired. And hitting 580 HR's is a great accomplishment. Now personally I think he was aided, but he is of course not the only one. And 500 Hr's always has been the magic number, like 300 pitching wins, or 3,000 K's. Hard for me to think that they will start not having this be the gold standard with him. he'll get in eventually.

Besides, I wouldn't believe Canseco under any circumstances! Mcguire had the Jars of Andro in his locker for the world to see...and made public statements to warn kids not to mess with any stuff without a doctors visit!

[GPK]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

Cal is my all time favorite...I hope he can enjoy the moment despite all of the other talk that is going on...

Man...Tony Gwynn....was there a harder out in baseball??? Flat loved to watch him play....

Brad, you make it to many Orioles games?

[saucon17]

How the hell did Jose Canseco get six votes for the Hall of Fame. I guess
those writers don't care he admitted to taking steroids, they should
be banned from future Hall of Fame voting.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by saucon17

How the hell did Jose Canseco get six votes for the Hall of Fame. I guess
those writers don't care he admitted to taking steroids, they should
be banned from future Hall of Fame voting.

At least he's honest which is more than you can say for the rest of them. I'd think the idiot who handed in an empty ballot just to assure Ripken didn't get 100% of the votes is the one who should be banned from future voting.

[saucon17]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

At least he's honest which is more than you can say for the rest of them. I'd think the idiot who handed in an empty ballot just to assure Ripken didn't get 100% of the votes is the one who should be banned from future voting.

Good point there, at least he was honest not like McGwire at the
Senate hearings not saying a word.

[Gander]

How the hell did Jose Canseco get six votes for the Hall of Fame.

If he got 6 votes, then Mcgwire should have only gotten 6. Both are cheats, but at least Jose has come out of the proverbial closet. How stupid does Big Mac think the general public is? What a fool. Guy has ruined this era of baseball.

[SniperSB23]

The sad reality is with how prevelant steroid use was during that era we can't say with 100% certainty that even Cal Ripken never touched them. We'll never know for sure with the clean guys.

[Gander]

Yes I know for sure Cal Ripken never touched steroids. I'd bet my collection of old racing forms on it

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by T3B

Brad, you make it to many Orioles games?

GPK - Yeah, I usually make it out to a couple of games a year...it's a great time, even though the O's haven't been that great lately. Might be a good place for DT'ers to meet up one day even...

[GPK]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

GPK - Yeah, I usually make it out to a couple of games a year...it's a great time, even though the O's haven't been that great lately. Might be a good place for DT'ers to meet up one day even...

went to a game a few years ago...fell in love with Camden Yards...had seats 11 rows up behind home plate...was the shizzle..

[ninetoone]

If anyone ever makes their way to the "Yard", they have a no-scalp zone where regular people with extra tickets can unload them for at or below face value. I'm not sure if they have this at every ball park, I've only been to a few.

I've done this several times with no problem & gotten some awesome seats....usually you end up paying under the ticket price, and usually you're sitting next to the person that sold them to you for a song. Buy 'em a cold one & a good time is guaranteed to be had by all....even if no one parks one deep into the Boog's BBQ sauce over the right field wall. (Boog, you got nothin' on Steve )

[horseofcourse]

I'm not sure McGwire is a hall of famer ever without the steroid stuff. He was injury plagued for a long time in Oakland. Several great years, but several mediocre ones as well. Take away the 580 homers and I don't know. He is a .263 career hitter with 1600 total hits. He hit .217 in postseason with 5 home runs in 129 at bats. Look at his numbers from 1988 through 1994...not good for supposedly a guy in his peak...yes he had injuries but also some patheitic years...his career then took off in 1995.

Even if he never took a steroid he is no hall of famer.