Barclay Tagg's comments on NoBiz

brockguy · #1 10-09-2007, 05:01 PM

“The problem with the Mile is that even if he wins he won't get the accolades he deserves,” said trainer Barclay Tagg. “English Channel or whoever wins the Breeders' Cup Turf will probably be voted turf champion, and he's not going to be three-year-old champion, so what does he really have to gain by running in the Mile?”

making excuses or does he have valid point..

philcski · #2 10-09-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy

“The problem with the Mile is that even if he wins he won't get the accolades he deserves,” said trainer Barclay Tagg. “English Channel or whoever wins the Breeders' Cup Turf will probably be voted turf champion, and he's not going to be three-year-old champion, so what does he really have to gain by running in the Mile?”

making excuses or does he have valid point..

does anybody actually care who wins the Eclipse awards? If he wins the BC Mile that's accolades enough!!

The problem is he isn't fast enough to win the BC Mile.

pmacdaddy · #3 10-09-2007, 05:14 PM

Thought he looked great Sat, but brushing off the BC Mile seems extreme..

He has not faced G1 company on the Grass yet, correct?

#4 10-09-2007, 05:15 PM

No comment.

letswastemoney · #5 10-09-2007, 05:17 PM

He's right. No need for a grueling race if there is nothing on the line. Yeah you can say it's still money to win....but he can pick up some easy money and a graded stakes at Hollywood Park next month.

#6 10-09-2007, 05:23 PM

Actually I do have a comment.

Looking at John Henry's PPs just magnifies how pathetic the owners and trainers of today are. They should be ashamed to call themselves horsemen.

Indian Charlie · #7 10-09-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

This is Steve Haskin's take on NoBiz:

The Mile would be a tough spot, with a big field and post positions so important, but one thing is for sure, we haven’t seen an American turf horse with that kind of explosive turn of foot in quite a while.

I guess Kitten's Joy is ancient history.

Is PointGiven1985 ghostwriting for Haskin these days?

LARHAGE · #8 10-09-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

This is Steve Haskin's take on NoBiz:

The Mile would be a tough spot, with a big field and post positions so important, but one thing is for sure, we haven’t seen an American turf horse with that kind of explosive turn of foot in quite a while.

I guess Kitten's Joy is ancient history.

I think Shakespeare would crush him as would After Market and Crossing the Line, I don't think he could even beat Out of Control, Tagg is getting a bit ahead of himself if he thinks he had that race in the bag.

whodey17 · #9 10-09-2007, 06:16 PM

No Biz wouldnt even hit the board in the Mile. I dont mind Tagg skipping the Mile. I think it would be a silly attempt. Like others have said, there are softer spots and plenty of money to earn

Bobby Fischer · #10 10-09-2007, 06:33 PM

he isn't a miler

I wouldn't enter someone just for the sake of saying he was running on the big day. Then again my last name isn't Valando or Tagg.

philcski · #11 10-09-2007, 06:34 PM

Just to put things in perspective, Tagg skipped the Mile with Showing Up off a similar campaign and he would have rated at least TWICE the chance of Nobiz in the Mile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

he isn't a miler

I wouldn't enter someone just for the sake of saying he was running on the big day. Then again my last name isn't Valando or Tagg.

Tagg doesn't either. That's one of the many things that makes him a great trainer/horseman.

King Glorious · #12 10-09-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

This is Steve Haskin's take on NoBiz:

The Mile would be a tough spot, with a big field and post positions so important, but one thing is for sure, we haven’t seen an American turf horse with that kind of explosive turn of foot in quite a while.

I guess Kitten's Joy is ancient history.

Artie Schiller. And Gorella. And Megahertz. And.....well, I think the point is clear.

Getaway · #13 10-10-2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Artie Schiller. And Gorella. And Megahertz. And.....well, I think the point is clear.

Artie Schiller had an excellent turn of foot....but remember his most impressive races were against the 3YO's of 2004 (set the track record in the Jamaica, and looked equally as impressive as Nobiz doing it). He had an excellent 4YO season, but he didn't beat up on the competition like he did as a 3YO. If you throw out his 2004 Breeders cup, where he had a disastrous trip clipping heels and getting stuck behind a wall, he never ran a bad race.

The point I am trying to make is that when you face older horses, it is a whole new ball game. Look at showing up last year in the Man O' War. He ran a good race, but was not ready for that competition. Im sure Tagg feels that he probably won't win the mile, but has a good shot at it next year with a healthy horse, and probably can get an easy GI win at Hollywood just like he did with Showing Up last year.

philcski · #14 10-10-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Getaway

Artie Schiller had an excellent turn of foot....but remember his most impressive races were against the 3YO's of 2004 (set the track record in the Jamaica, and looked equally as impressive as Nobiz doing it). He had an excellent 4YO season, but he didn't beat up on the competition like he did as a 3YO. If you throw out his 2004 Breeders cup, where he had a disastrous trip clipping heels and getting stuck behind a wall, he never ran a bad race.

The point I am trying to make is that when you face older horses, it is a whole new ball game. Look at showing up last year in the Man O' War. He ran a good race, but was not ready for that competition. Im sure Tagg feels that he probably won't win the mile, but has a good shot at it next year with a healthy horse, and probably can get an easy GI win at Hollywood just like he did with Showing Up last year.

Artie was one of my personal favorites, but man did he have bad luck in photo finishes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

What happened with Showing Up last year (a horse that I think would have had a huge shot in the Mile) illustrates that you often need to strike while the iron's hot. Tagg said that he didn't want to run a 3YO against his elders and would wait to his 4YO season to take a shot at the BC. Then, Showing Up gets hurt in 2007, and he misses a chance to win a Cup race in both years. It's hard enough getting a horse to a race 12 days from now, let alone 12 months from now.

I also think that at this time of year a good 3YO can certainly beat their elders. In the past few weeks, we've seen it done by Curlin, Hard Spun, Panty Raid and Idiot Proof, and the BC Mile is full of 3YO winners. War Chant, Lure, Six Perfections, Ridgewood Pearl and Miesque (the last three of whom were 3YO fillies) come to mind off the top of my head. I'm not saying that NoBiz is in their league, but the notion that we shouldn't run because he's only a 3YO makes little sense to me. (If he's just ducking the race because he knows his horse would not be competitive there, that's another story, but then don't complain that the horse is underappreciated.)

There's about a 0% chance of it happening, but let's cross our fingers that Showing Up comes back from injury 100%. That is one nice horse when right. I don't think people realize how good his Lexington-Derby-Cnl Turf Cup was off of TWO career starts prior.

parsixfarms · #15 10-10-2007, 08:59 AM

What happened with Showing Up last year (a horse that I think would have had a huge shot in the Mile) illustrates that you often need to strike while the iron's hot. Tagg said that he didn't want to run a 3YO against his elders and would wait to his 4YO season to take a shot at the BC. Then, Showing Up gets hurt in 2007, and he misses a chance to win a Cup race in both years. It's hard enough getting a horse to a race 12 days from now, let alone 12 months from now.

I also think that at this time of year a good 3YO can certainly beat their elders. In the past few weeks, we've seen it done by Curlin, Hard Spun, Panty Raid and Idiot Proof, and the BC Mile is full of 3YO winners. War Chant, Lure, Six Perfections, Ridgewood Pearl and Miesque (the last three of whom were 3YO fillies) come to mind off the top of my head. I'm not saying that NoBiz is in their league, but the notion that we shouldn't run because he's only a 3YO makes little sense to me. (If he's just ducking the race because he knows his horse would not be competitive there, that's another story, but then don't complain that the horse is underappreciated.)

SniperSB23 · #16 10-10-2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

What happened with Showing Up last year (a horse that I think would have had a huge shot in the Mile) illustrates that you often need to strike while the iron's hot. Tagg said that he didn't want to run a 3YO against his elders and would wait to his 4YO season to take a shot at the BC. Then, Showing Up gets hurt in 2007, and he misses a chance to win a Cup race in both years. It's hard enough getting a horse to a race 12 days from now, let alone 12 months from now.

I also think that at this time of year a good 3YO can certainly beat their elders. In the past few weeks, we've seen it done by Curlin, Hard Spun, Panty Raid and Idiot Proof, and the BC Mile is full of 3YO winners. War Chant, Lure, Six Perfections, Ridgewood Pearl and Miesque (the last three of whom were 3YO fillies) come to mind off the top of my head. I'm not saying that NoBiz is in their league, but the notion that we shouldn't run because he's only a 3YO makes little sense to me. (If he's just ducking the race because he knows his horse would not be competitive there, that's another story, but then don't complain that the horse is underappreciated.)

Three year old turf horse is one of the few cases that it can make some sense to skip the BC since you have the Hollywood Derby as an option. Of course it would be great to see Nobiz go in both but that is a lot to ask under the modern day "fresh horse" training practices.

KY_Sasquash · #17 10-10-2007, 09:20 AM

Tagg should run him in the Classic. The horse is coming into his own right now and he'd have a legit shot. He was too immature back in the spring and finally is maturing. If he doesnt run well he can point him towards a turf campaign next year. Winning the Hollywood derby isnt going to do much for his stallion prospects since he's by Albert the Great so missing that race wouldnt be that big of a deal.

#18 10-10-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

This is Steve Haskin's take on NoBiz:

The Mile would be a tough spot, with a big field and post positions so important, but one thing is for sure, we haven’t seen an American turf horse with that kind of e turn of foot in quite a while.

I guess Kitten's Joy is ancient history.

Haskin is clueless. Nobiz doesn't even have the most e turn of foot in his own barn. Nobiz is slow. All these writers that hyped Nobiz for some reason earlier in the year are covering their butt. Nobiz is not in the BC Mile because he is not that fast.

NoLuvForPletch · #19 10-10-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Haskin is clueless. Nobiz doesn't even have the most e turn of foot in his own barn. Nobiz is slow. All these writers that hyped Nobiz for some reason earlier in the year are covering their butt. Nobiz is not in the BC Mile because he is not that fast.

How much faster than the 34 and 4 he came home in do you want him to run?

#20 10-10-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

How much faster than the 34 and 4 he came home in do you want him to run?

The Belmont turf is so hard that maidens are running 6f in 108 and change. His race was not that fast and he is still nothing more than a 95-100 beyer horse. The 3yr old turf horses in america are terrible as usual, but Nobiz can't compete with the top turf horses in the world or even america. Horses like Kitten's Joy, Showing Up, and even Kip Deville were much faster 3yr old turf horses. Nobiz is just well placed by a trainer that understands that horse can't compete with the top dirt horses or the top grass horses. He could move up next year, like an After Market did, but if you look at the career of Nobiz, he appears to be no faster today than he was at 2.