Breeders' Cup Going for Grade 1's Again

[ALostTexan]

Story from Thoroughbred Times

Just like last year, the Breeders' Cup is going for Grade 1 status for the 3 new races, and they are considering another $1 million race for the program.

They at least had Grade 1 winners in two of the three new races, which should help their cause, but I still am not sure they should go straight to a Grade 1, although I can see the argument from both sides.

Do you think they will receive the G1 status, and what are your feelings about adding another big race this soon?

[whodey17]

It is very hard to find quality races in this day of racing in late fall. The BC is becoming for horses who have not already cemented their stud value or for horses to go out in a blaze of glory. Heck, stud plans for War Pass have already been decided. If he goes on to win the Derby and the Travers then why run him in the BC Classic. It wouldn't add to his value.

One thing I would like to see is a race for 3 year olds only going 1 1/4. Then we could have a race soley for older horses going 1 1/4 miles. You can make an exception stating that if a 3 year old won any of the triple crown races he/she can run in the older horse race and receive a bonus if he/she wins.

I wonder if the success of the Dubai Festival has played into the plans of the BC. I remember the President of the BC stating that he would like to see the BC spread out over a three or four day period. Where on earth is the BC going to find horses to run in so many races that people are interested in seeing. We can barely get enough horses to compete in the BCC these days worth watching.

I am not a fan of what the BC does to racing but it is here to stay so they need to do something to make the racing more appealing to the betting public as well as to the non-betting public.

[MaTH716]

I personally like it as a one day event. I also think that it is easier to promote to the casual fan. Who is going to pay huge amounts of money for tickets to 4 days of racing? How many people ate the tickets for the first day in the monsoon this year? In my opinion a 3 year old race at 1 1/4 is a bad idea, even with the conditions you applied. So if Curlin and Street Sense go to the classic you are left with Hard Spun, AGS and a bunch of mediocore 3 year olds running in a BC race. What would have the Classic been if those horses would have opted for the 3 year old race? I just do not think that it would be good for the BC.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I personally like it as a one day event. I also think that it is easier to promote to the casual fan. Who is going to pay huge amounts of money for tickets to 4 days of racing? How many people ate the tickets for the first day in the monsoon this year? In my opinion a 3 year old race at 1 1/4 is a bad idea, even with the conditions you applied. So if Curlin and Street Sense go to the classic you are left with Hard Spun, AGS and a bunch of mediocore 3 year olds running in a BC race. What would have the Classic been if those horses would have opted for the 3 year old race? I just do not think that it would be good for the BC.

Good points and you are probably right. I am trying to come up with someway to increase the number of half-way decent entrants.

[MaTH716]

You know it's the Breeders Cup. Usually full fields, with the exception of the turf classic. European shippers, how will the 3 year olds fare, who's stretchin out, who is on the turf. There are plenty of storylines. Handicapping is tough enough, now 2 year old races and even worse synthetic surfaces. It's the Super Bowl of racing, it will always be exciting. Just as long as they do not dilute the product.

[whodey17]

MaTH - you believe that the BC shouldn't be expanded to the possible dilution of fields? If the BC powers could come up with a way to expand the prodcut without diluting the fields, would you be in favor of that? I am in favor of expanding the BC format to 4 days. Europeans pay good money to come over here for the BC. Why not give them the opportunity to witness 3 or 4 great days of racing instead of just 2? I do not think that all BC races should be Grade I's. My feeling on racing in America is that the mid-level racing is more competitive that the high level of racing. I would not mind at all to see an evenly matched field of high level allowance horses and some Grade III horses compete

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

You know it's the Breeders Cup. Usually full fields, with the exception of the turf classic. European shippers, how will the 3 year olds fare, who's stretchin out, who is on the turf. There are plenty of storylines. Handicapping is tough enough, now 2 year old races and even worse synthetic surfaces. It's the Super Bowl of racing, it will always be exciting. Just as long as they do not dilute the product.

I agree, but unfortunately many people don't see it that way. One day of 8 or 9 Breeder's cup races is PLENTY! It's just nuts that people want to see this go to as many as 4 days.

[Kasept]

BCL should be made to wait the full three years like every other venue applying for graded status. What are next year's 2 main track BC prelims going to tell us exactly being run on the Cushion for the first time? Let them get three years of fields to analyze which will include whatever venue gets the 2009 'festivus' and then give them whatever status the races deserve based on the fields.

Obviously these three initial new races will have zero bearing on any division championship this year or any time soon, so IMO... "here's your hat, what's your hurry?"

[pmayjr]

The article said the new race would be a turf sprint. I'd prefer the filly and mare turf mile. But a Turf sprint being the new race in time for Santa Anita next year makes me lick my chops. What do you guys think of this name?

"The Breeder's Cup Down-the-Hill-Mil"
Make it a 5f Turf sprint any year except when the BC is at SA. Then you gotta go 6.5 down the hill.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

The article said the new race would be a turf sprint. I'd prefer the filly and mare turf mile. But a Turf sprint being the new race in time for Santa Anita next year makes me lick my chops. What do you guys think of this name?

"The Breeder's Cup Down-the-Hill-Mil"
Make it a 5f Turf sprint any year except when the BC is at SA. Then you gotta go 6.5 down the hill.

From a marketing perspective it is quite perfectly actually. Running it at a unique distance and set up adds to the hype and gets the ball rolling quickly. Just look at how many people were talking about the Dirt Mile and 70.

I know that I showed my friends, who go to the track with me but don't follow horse racing, a race down the hill at TVG and half thought it was pretty cool and the other half thought it was the most retarded thing ever.

[smuthg]

some what off-topic, but any chance they'd give the Fairgrounds the 2009 B/C? agree they should wait the full 3 years....

[blackthroatedwind]

Is there a single Grade 2 Turf Sprint in the US during the course of the year?

Personally I think this is yet another example of how out of touch the BC is with American racing in general. Expecting the 2YO turf race to be a Grade 1 is absurd and indefensible. I have no problem with the other two races being Grade 1s...but the 2YO race should be a Grade 3. Hell, there isn't even one graded 2YO turf stake in the US prior to the BC....but they think they deserve a Grade 1. What fantasy world are they living in?

[Merlinsky]

They said most likely a turf sprint (mainly geared toward the males but really both sexes like the BC Sprint). I don't think there's a point for a mile and a quarter on turf. If a horse can't get a mile and half, the mile's too tough or too short for them, and they can handle a little extra distance, they're gonna take a shot at the Classic on dirt. They'll never make the 1 1/4 turf race the same value of the BCC so you'll always lose the bulk of the contenders because it's just too much money to lose.

The BC people need to get in gear on coming up with G1 Juvenile races on turf. They have to show some movement toward developing that or I can't see the BC Juvenile Turf getting G1 status this year. Not that I wouldn't like it to have it at some point but no Euro G1 turfers made it and we don't have the opportunity yet to make our own so something's gotta give for it to have impact on year end honors. It's really a race in freefall at the moment.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

They said most likely a turf sprint (mainly geared toward the males but really both sexes like the BC Sprint).

I don't see the point of a turf sprint at the BC yet. While I think it could be a fun and exciting race, there is no series of races that comes anywhere close to being considered legit preps for it.

I imagine you'd see plenty of equality between the sexes in that race. Fillies and mares who are good sprinting on the lawn can hold their own against the boys -- arguably even better than on dirt.

[blackthroatedwind]

Turf sprints are basically for horses too slow to compete in other races....either sprinting on the dirt or going long on the turf. Why the BC feels a need to reward these horses is beyond me.

Oh, sorry, it isn't.....they don't have a clue.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I like the idea of adding a 1 1/4 turf race, so we can have two 7 or 8 fields for middle distance (10f. and 12f.) turf races.

I agree.

10 furlongs on turf can be suited to a completely different horse than the mile or the 12 furlong race.

Desert War in Australia comes to mind.

[blackthroatedwind]

I thought the original idea of the BC was to crown champions. How exactly does diluting the fields even further by adding a Mile and a Quarter turf race achieve that goal? Hell, they only had 8 in the BC Turf this year. I'm very curious who the prospective champions are that would have made up the field for the 1 1/4 race. Certainly they couldn't have come from the meager fields we saw for this year's BC preps.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I thought the original idea of the BC was to crown champions. How exactly does diluting the fields even further by adding a Mile and a Quarter turf race achieve that goal? Hell, they only had 8 in the BC Turf this year. I'm very curious who the prospective champions are that would have made up the field for the 1 1/4 race. Certainly they couldn't have come from the meager fields we saw for this year's BC preps.

Go Between.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Go Between.

OK, at least we have one sane member here.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

OK, at least we have one sane member here.

I am curious though, about your thought that horses run in turf sprints because they are too slow to run sprinting on dirt or going a mile on the green.

Maybe I haven't thought about it enough, but for a horse like Nicole's Dream, before she was retired -- it was just what she was good at.

Is it not possible that some horses are just suited to sprinting on the grass? I'll use Arlington as an example. There plenty of horses who can win there going six furlongs on the dirt (or now, poly) but couldn't win a mile event out of the chute to save their lives. Maybe you're just making a generalization based on the recent proliferation of cheap maiden sellers and NW1X grass sprints full of 20-time losers -- but at the level where we're getting multiple winners and higher-end optional claimers, I tend to disagree and think that some horses are just better suited for that trip.

Of course, this question is only in relation to turf sprinting in general, and not having a BC race for them.