Whale's past post sets off alarm

[Kasept]

Mike Maloney, a Keeneland Race Course-based “whale,” or big bettor, who bets between $6-million and $12-million per year and as much as $10,000 on a single race, said Thursday at the Symposium on Racing and Gaming that on November 25 he bet on the third race at Fair Grounds Race Course after the race started.... MORE:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...ter-start.aspx

“What would happen if this happened at Keno,” Maloney said. “If someone could play a keno ticket after two balls were drawn, the gaming commission would close all the games until the casinos improved technology.

“The [racing] industry doesn’t address this because it costs money and doesn’t make money, but it hurts the pool and hurts the game. They don’t care because they get their commission whether people win or lose.”

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Mike Maloney, a Keeneland Race Course-based “whale,” or big bettor, who bets between $6-million and $12-million per year and as much as $10,000 on a single race, said Thursday at the Symposium on Racing and Gaming that on November 25 he bet on the third race at Fair Grounds Race Course after the race started.... MORE:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...ter-start.aspx

“What would happen if this happened at Keno,” Maloney said. “If someone could play a keno ticket after two balls were drawn, the gaming commission would close all the games until the casinos improved technology.

“The [racing] industry doesn’t address this because it costs money and doesn’t make money, but it hurts the pool and hurts the game. They don’t care because they get their commission whether people win or lose.”

Would he rather they close the pools with 2 minutes to post? It was a one time isolated incident. Get over it.

[Swale84]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...ter-start.aspx

The edge didn't help him
"Through a live teller Maloney said he then made four wagers that were similar to bets he already had made on the race. He said they were all losing tickets."

[Cannon Shell]

This is a non issue unless it is happening a lot or because someone is trying to gain an advantage by doing it. If those are the cases it is a big problem but that does not seem to be the case.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is a non issue unless it is happening a lot or because someone is trying to gain an advantage by doing it. If those are the cases it is a big problem but that does not seem to be the case.

That's nonsense Chuck. It shouldn't be able to ever happen. And, the likelihood that if it happened this time that it doesn't happen other times is zero. Plus, perception is that it does happen, and that matters a great deal.

If they need to close the pools when the first horse is loaded then they should. People will learn to adjust. Any situation where the machines are open after the start is completely unacceptable.

[ninetoone]

I'd have to agree. Just because they didn't get burned, doesn't mean it wasn't a big deal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's nonsense Chuck. It shouldn't be able to ever happen. And, the likelihood that if it happened this time that it doesn't happen other times is zero. Plus, perception is that it does happen, and that matters a great deal.

If they need to close the pools when the first horse is loaded then they should. People will learn to adjust. Any situation where the machines are open after the start is completely unacceptable.

As long as electronic technology exists there will be malfunctions. As I said if there are multiple malfunctions then it is a problem. But as long as it is an isolated occurence I cant say that it is a huge issue.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's nonsense Chuck. It shouldn't be able to ever happen. And, the likelihood that if it happened this time that it doesn't happen other times is zero. Plus, perception is that it does happen, and that matters a great deal.

If they need to close the pools when the first horse is loaded then they should. People will learn to adjust. Any situation where the machines are open after the start is completely unacceptable.

If this was the stock market, they'd be in fear of class action lawsuits when this kind of thing happend. Which would deter it. Please I'm hardly a fan of lawyers and lawsuits but they do deter stuff like this from happening. Unfortunately in parimutual racing, the victims are too splintered and most couldn't provide proof (losing tix) that they were injured.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Would he rather they close the pools with 2 minutes to post? It was a one time isolated incident. Get over it.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, I tend to start at the beginning. I must say this is a bullshit post. Why in the hell would bettors have any reason to believe it is a one time incident? It should never, ever happen. We've been told a million times it can't happen. I laughed every time I heard that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, I tend to start at the beginning. I must say this is a bullshit post. Why in the hell would bettors have any reason to believe it is a one time incident? It should never, ever happen. We've been told a million times it can't happen. I laughed every time I heard that.

If this is happening all the time why is this issue almost never discussed? If it is such a problem then why dont I ever hear about it happening? I hear all the time about every other bitch that people have in this industry a hundred times over but for such a major problem it seems like it is rarely mentioned.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If this is happening all the time why is this issue almost never discussed? If it is such a problem then why dont I ever hear about it happening? I hear all the time about every other bitch that people have in this industry a hundred times over but for such a major problem it seems like it is rarely mentioned.

Because it doesn't. One blowhard makes a statement saying he bet halfway through a race and everyones panties get into a twist. But it sounds to me like people now want to get shut out with 2 MTP.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If this is happening all the time why is this issue almost never discussed? If it is such a problem then why dont I ever hear about it happening? I hear all the time about every other bitch that people have in this industry a hundred times over but for such a major problem it seems like it is rarely mentioned.

you've never heard anyone complain about late odds changes?

the experience of a 4-1 shot taking an easy lead and crossing the finish line 5-2?

i can't remember when this wasn't something people talked about. and the answer is always the same. the wagering platform is secure and no one is getting bets in after the gate opens.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If this is happening all the time why is this issue almost never discussed? If it is such a problem then why dont I ever hear about it happening? I hear all the time about every other bitch that people have in this industry a hundred times over but for such a major problem it seems like it is rarely mentioned.

The thing is, nobody knows how often it is happening. This came up as a fluke. There is lots of suspicion among bettors that there is past posting going on. Check just about any message board on the net. I'm not saying it is happening, but the perception among many is that it does.

[blackthroatedwind]

Mike Maloney is not just one of the biggest bettors in the country, he is also one of the sharpest horseplayers alive, and an extremely bright and well-spoken advocate of bettor's rights. To make light of this is a mistake. None of us knows as much as he knows about this situation and I for one listen to anything he has to say and take it all seriously.

The bottom line is that the necessary dollars have not been spent to update our tote system and even one situation like this is too many for me. Laugh and joke all you want but if you put your money through the windows you should be taking this very seriously......and expecting that all racing organizations are acting in kind.

[hi_im_god]

i think layering on the idea that a system is vulnerable to insider manipulation to a sport that already requires complicated puzzle solving skills is a problem.

whether that's real or just an inaccurate perception doesn't matter. no one wants to think they may get cheated.

you're too close to the issue cannon. it doesn't matter if it's real. the perception that the industry shrugs it shoulder's and says "no big deal" will effect handle a lot more in the long term than eliminating the bad perception late odd shifts and the occasional accident like this cause.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i think layering on the idea that a system is vulnerable to insider manipulation to a sport that already requires complicated puzzle solving skills is a problem.

whether that's real or just an inaccurate perception doesn't matter. no one wants to think they may get cheated.

you're too close to the issue cannon. it doesn't matter if it's real. the perception that the industry shrugs it shoulder's and says "no big deal" will effect handle a lot more in the long term than eliminating the bad perception late odd shifts and the occasional accident like this cause.

If what you say is true, can you say with any degree of certainty or with verifiable evidence that the Breeders Cup scandal which is much worse than this has negatively effected handle in any manner? I agree that the security of the pools is a huge issue but this example seems to be an isolated case. If not why hasn't it been brought up pubically before? Or has it?

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If what you say is true, can you say with any degree of certainty or with verifiable evidence that the Breeders Cup scandal which is much worse than this has negatively effected handle in any manner? I agree that the security of the pools is a huge issue but this example seems to be an isolated case. If not why hasn't it been brought up pubically before? Or has it?

Game set match goes to the blogger from Ky.....

BC scandal probably actually drove handle up!!!!

Any publicity is good publicity!!

This in the words of Mr "Shakes"......"Is much ado about nothing"

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Odds on winners go down way too much for it to be a coincidence.You really don't have an excuse for not getting a bet at home made.I would be fine with shutting pools down for everyone except those at the actual track the race is taking place.Let them have that perk(for going to the actual track.)

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If what you say is true, can you say with any degree of certainty or with verifiable evidence that the Breeders Cup scandal which is much worse than this has negatively effected handle in any manner? I agree that the security of the pools is a huge issue but this example seems to be an isolated case. If not why hasn't it been brought up pubically before? Or has it?

i can say that most people are satisfied the problem that lead to the pick 6 scandal was addressed and confident it can't be repeated.

they changed course after that. which makes all the difference.

what would have happened to handle in the pick 6 if everyone knew something strange had happened and the reaction had been "don't worry. that was an isolated incident and we don't need to do anything about it."

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i can say that most people are satisfied the problem that lead to the pick 6 scandal was addressed and confident it can't be repeated.

they changed course after that. which makes all the difference.

what would have happened to handle in the pick 6 if everyone knew something strange had happened and the reaction had been "don't worry. that was an isolated incident and we don't need to do anything about it."

Big difference between the the BC scandal and this. Wagering security is important, that I understand. But I am at a racetrack every day and I talk to people in different jurisdictions daily and I cant remember the last time I heard about betting after the race went off. What would concern me more is a hacker getting into the system without anyone knowing. If you want to say that this instance was an example of a faulty system then I can agree with you. But if this had happened to this guy before why didn't he give other examples? Or did he and they weren't reported?