Beyer still not sold on Big Brown

[Better Than Honour]

I am in 100% agreement with him. A lot of hype for an unproven horse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...=moreheadlines

"Brown's ridiculously easy victory didn't tell us whether he is a great horse -- or just the dominant member of a weak thoroughbred crop."

"In his five-race career, Big Brown still has not beaten a horse of real quality, nor has he been fast enough to prove he is a horse for the ages."

"Perhaps Big Brown finally will get a challenge when he faces the intriguing Casino Drive three weeks hence."

[mik9872]

If Big Brown crushes Casino Drive, and I believe he will, we will only be able to rate how good he is if he faces Curlin. He has clearly demonstrated his superiorty over this weak 3yo bunch. The older horses, other than Curlin,are also an inferior group.

[Better Than Honour]

Casino Drive is a big-time horse. If Big Brown beats him I will be impressed. My word is worth nothing though. Take it from Kent who rode him.

"He's a monster lying in wait," said Desormeaux, who rode the half-brother of the past two Belmont winners.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So I guess the answer to my question is yes?

Yeah, I would say so.

[PeteMugg]

Wow, AB really stuck his neck out on this one.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by mik9872

If Big Brown crushes Casino Drive, and I believe he will, we will only be able to rate how good he is if he faces Curlin. He has clearly demonstrated his superiorty over this weak 3yo bunch. The older horses, other than Curlin,are also an inferior group.

It won't happen. If Big Brown goes through to the end of the season -- Curlin will not defend his BC Classic title. It's possible, as opposed to probable. However, if so, Jackson and Assmusen will become racing fan enemy # 1 (although Assmusen perhaps at times already is). They will be criticized for not being sportsmen, and so on, similar to what we saw with Street Sense's connections.

Regardless, Big Brown will not ever be "accepted" -- yet I don't know if that's here in a forum like this, mainstream racing fans, the industry at large, etc.

Eric

[Better Than Honour]

Originally Posted by ELA

It won't happen. If Big Brown goes through to the end of the season -- Curlin will not defend his BC Classic title. It's possible, as opposed to probable. However, if so, Jackson and Assmusen will become racing fan enemy # 1 (although Assmusen perhaps at times already is). They will be criticized for not being sportsmen, and so on, similar to what we saw with Street Sense's connections.

Regardless, Big Brown will not ever be "accepted" -- yet I don't know if that's here in a forum like this, mainstream racing fans, the industry at large, etc.

Eric

Curlin will 100% be there in the BCC. He would handle the current Big Brown rather easily. The one thing about Curlin is that he has run from nobody. If Big Brown wants him in the fall he will get him. It is Big Brown though that will not show up in the Classic.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Better Than Honour

Curlin will 100% be there in the BCC. He would handle the current Big Brown rather easily. The one thing about Curlin is that he has run from nobody. If Big Brown wants him in the fall he will get him. It is Big Brown though that will not show up in the Classic.

We will see. I wouldn't be surprised if Curlin doesn't go -- 1000% however not due to ducking anyone. I agree, he has taken on all comers and will. Same label though -- a trainer who is an easy target. It's just as easy for an owner to be a target, when the so called public at large doesn't agree with a decision, and along comes the "If I owned that horse" syndrome.

I don't know "how much" better Big Brown might get, if at all. However, the same question(s) can be asked about Curlin.

Eric

[Better Than Honour]

Originally Posted by ELA

We will see. I wouldn't be surprised if Curlin doesn't go -- 1000% however not due to ducking anyone. I agree, he has taken on all comers and will. Same label though -- a trainer who is an easy target. It's just as easy for an owner to be a target, when the so called public at large doesn't agree with a decision, and along comes the "If I owned that horse" syndrome.

I don't know "how much" better Big Brown might get, if at all. However, the same question(s) can be asked about Curlin.

Eric

Curlin doesn't need to get better. He has already proven he is a tremendous talent. Big Brown needs to get faster, much faster to take on Curlin. He might do it. We just have to hope he stays around. Although I suspect he will retired with a mysterious injury right after Casino Drive beats him.

[PeteMugg]

Seems like folks are trying to drive a wedge between BB and greatness. I'd say if he wins the triple crown he's pretty damn good. We've had threads before about how grueling this series is and how there'll will never be another triple crown. A new fan might think Curlin was the last.

[Ogygian]

Originally Posted by Better Than Honour

I am in 100% agreement with him. A lot of hype for an unproven horse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...=moreheadlines

"Brown's ridiculously easy victory didn't tell us whether he is a great horse -- or just the dominant member of a weak thoroughbred crop."

"In his five-race career, Big Brown still has not beaten a horse of real quality, nor has he been fast enough to prove he is a horse for the ages."

"Perhaps Big Brown finally will get a challenge when he faces the intriguing Casino Drive three weeks hence."

I 100% disagree...who else should he race exactly?? After every race people say "who has he beat"? The answer is he has beat everyone he has ran against.Thats who. Who has Casino Drive beat? MintLane, Tomcito, Readys Echo...I feel Casino Drive is the one that is unproven. Amazing...You can jump on the Casino Drive bandwagon, we will see June 7th.

[sdjcom]

Beyer Has'nt Picked A Derby Winner In 20 Yrs. He's Out Of Touch Anymore And Is Mad Because He Didn't See This Talent Earlier I Read
Beyer In The 70s' And He Isn't Half The Writer And Innovator He Once Was. Burn Out I Guess.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by sdjcom

Beyer Has'nt Picked A Derby Winner In 20 Yrs. He's Out Of Touch Anymore And Is Mad Because He Didn't See This Talent Earlier I Read
Beyer In The 70s' And He Isn't Half The Writer And Innovator He Once Was. Burn Out I Guess.

At least you haven't dropped off.

He picked Street Sense by the way.

[Cajungator26]

And then when Casino Drive loses, we'll hear that he just wasn't a good horse either.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

And then when Casino Drive loses, we'll hear that he just wasn't a good horse either.

That, the owners are jerks, have no class, are not sportsmen, and so on. Dutrow is a jerk as well, but also cheater, a drug addict -- perhaps reformed, and so on. There will always be plenty of reasons -- against the horse and to bash connections. Bashing can turn to hate pretty easy. Anyway, it is what it is.

Eric

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by ELA

That, the owners are jerks, have no class, are not sportsmen, and so on. Dutrow is a jerk as well, but also cheater, a drug addict -- perhaps reformed, and so on. There will always be plenty of reasons -- against the horse and to bash connections. Bashing can turn to hate pretty easy. Anyway, it is what it is.

Eric

Agree, but I could never hate a horse because of his connections. Big Brown didn't choose any of this. I bet against him in the Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby, but won't be doing so in the future ... I think he's just a really good horse and he towers above the others in this crop. It would be a good thing for racing if he won the triple crown ... Lord knows we need that.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Agree, but I could never hate a horse because of his connections. Big Brown didn't choose any of this. I bet against him in the Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby, but won't be doing so in the future ... I think he's just a really good horse and he towers above the others in this crop. It would be a good thing for racing if he won the triple crown ... Lord knows we need that.

Apparently, you are not in the majority. I would think far more people dislike the connections than the horse. It gets collapsed though. People start rooting against the horse, although they don't like that a horse like this ends up where he ends up and who he ends up with, or the bashing turns to hatred and it's not longer about the sport. Like I've always said -- this is a sport and business of self expression and that's what makes the world go 'round.

Eric

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Agree, but I could never hate a horse because of his connections. Big Brown didn't choose any of this. I bet against him in the Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby, but won't be doing so in the future ... I think he's just a really good horse and he towers above the others in this crop. It would be a good thing for racing if he won the triple crown ... Lord knows we need that.

completely disagree with the first, agree with the second, disagree with the third, and we really just need the various factions in racing to work together on signal, handle, etc.

[lemoncrush]

I've only been watching horse racing seriously on a national level for about 5 years, so I give up a lot of experience and wisdom to many on here. But if you watch all of Big Brown races, you have to be an idiot to not be impressed with the ease and brilliance he demonstrates when he runs.

GhostZapper is probably the best horse I've seen in the past 5 years, but it seemed he never coasted to victory, instead always having to work for it (granted, he didn't exude his greatness until he was an older horse).

I just think horses that can destroy large grade 1 fields with relative ease on dirt over and over again like Big Brown should be appreciated for how rare of an accomplishment that is, rather than ridiculued.

[ArlJim78]

"lot of hype for an unproven horse"

does that apply better to Big Brown or Casino Drive?

answer:Casino Drive in a landslide.