Haskin's piece from today ...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

It's a long equine name dropping piece about 3yo's that were excluded from the 23 horses selected in the Derby future wager betting field.

Here's a quote ...

The reason they are up in arms over the decision-making is that they feel several of those chosen are less -- or at least no more -- worthy of inclusion than they are.

They came to the sad conclusion that all one had to do to be considered a Derby contender was to run an outrageously fast Beyer speed figure going six furlongs or shorter, which many handicappers feel may be more of a negative than a positive.

When selecting the 23 horses for this bet ... I would seriously hope the only thing taken into consideration would be 'how much money might this horse take from the betting public?'

That is why horses like This One's For Phil, Notonthesamepage, and Silver City obviously deserve to be included ... while a horse like a Terrain probably doesn't.

About Terrain - he writes -

How could he be excluded after his 2-year-old accomplishments; also back in training.

Terrain was 5th beaten 12.5 lengths in the Delta Downs Jackpot in his most recent start. That race came after 3 synthetic track Graded Stakes defeats in which he basically picked off the tried horses - but never threatened the winner at any point. Without a start in '09 - that horse simply isn't taking much money.

I agree with some of his points about the morning line ... but I really cringe everytime I see anything that suggests "overall accomplishments" should dictate the horses selected.

After Big Brown won that allowance race that was rained off of the turf in his comeback last year .. of course you had hundreds of 3yos more accomplished .. but obviously Big Brown was going to take more money in a future bet than almost all of them.

It's pretty amazing that they can put together a future exacta wager .. but you're still only limited to 23 individual selections.

[blackthroatedwind]

Terrain?

He shouldn't be in the top 25 for a future bet on November's Discovery.

[dagulla]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Terrain?

He shouldn't be in the top 25 for a future bet on November's Discovery.

Some of the horses on the current list were very unrealistic... the KM horse, Taquarb over the over KM horse Mr. Fantasy, makes no sense at all to me.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by dagulla

Some of the horses on the current list were very unrealistic... the KM horse, Taquarb over the over KM horse Mr. Fantasy, makes no sense at all to me.

Really? Do you think highly of Legal Consent and Driven by Solar?

There is a great deal of talk about Mr. Fantasy but everyone needs to remember, he has beaten two NY bred fields. At Aqueduct. In the winter. That really adds an asterisk to what he's done.

I'm as big a Kiaran McLaughlin fan as anyone, so I hope Mr. Fantasy ends up being a terrific horse, but at the moment Taqarub is significantly more accomplished than him. Now discussing Taqarub's accomplishments thus far is a different discussion.

NT

[dagulla]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Really? Do you think highly of Legal Consent and Driven by Solar?

There is a great deal of talk about Mr. Fantasy but everyone needs to remember, he has beaten two NY bred fields. At Aqueduct. In the winter. That really adds an asterisk to what he's done.

I'm as big a Kiaran McLaughlin fan as anyone, so I hope Mr. Fantasy ends up being a terrific horse, but at the moment Taqarub is significantly more accomplished than him. Now discussing Taqarub's accomplishments thus far is a different discussion.

NT

I never said he would win the derby, even make it into the starting gate, but i find him a lot more likely to make it and do well then Taqarub, and he would have def. took more money then Taqarub will. As for the more accomplished, based on what ? He defeared horrible open company fields, with things his own way everytime he has raced.

[AeWingnut]

Terrain sucks? great. I put him in my RTTR stable thinking he would be pointed to the Illinois Derby

[Ogygian]

Not only will Terrain make the Derby field, he will pick up the pieces to finish a well beaten 8th,

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Really? Do you think highly of Legal Consent and Driven by Solar?

There is a great deal of talk about Mr. Fantasy but everyone needs to remember, he has beaten two NY bred fields. At Aqueduct. In the winter. That really adds an asterisk to what he's done.

I'm as big a Kiaran McLaughlin fan as anyone, so I hope Mr. Fantasy ends up being a terrific horse, but at the moment Taqarub is significantly more accomplished than him. Now discussing Taqarub's accomplishments thus far is a different discussion.

NT

With West Point owning Mr. Fantasy, and him already having been two turns (and being pointed to the Gotham which, aside from Haynesfield, is likely to come up a soft spot), he's much more likely to be a Derby starter at this point than a Shadwell owned-colt who has never been farther than 6F.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

With West Point owning Mr. Fantasy, and him already having been two turns (and being pointed to the Gotham which, aside from Haynesfield, is likely to come up a soft spot), he's much more likely to be a Derby starter at this point than a Shadwell owned-colt who has never been farther than 6F.

I didn't say anything about Mr. Fantasy being less likely to get to the Derby starting gate. I don't think there's any chance West Point would pass on the Derby with a horse who had sufficient graded earnings whether he/she even had a chance.

What I said was that Taqarub is more accomplished at this point in time and that is part of the reason why he's on the list of 23 right now and MF is not. Another poster in the thread questioned Mr. Fantasy's exclusion and Taqarub's inclusion, so that is how I responded.

Taqarub is being stretched out to a mile next time out, so using the races he's run thus far as a barometer for whether he's Derby bound might be unwise. If he is the same one-way speedster that he's been in NY then he's in trouble with Notonthesamepage also pointed there. That being said, Taqarub's damside is full of distance runners, so there's reason to believe he can stretchout.

We'll see what happens but right now I find it hilarious that someone would say Mr. Fantasy should be one of the 23 prospects on the Future Wager list.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

With West Point owning Mr. Fantasy, and him already having been two turns (and being pointed to the Gotham which, aside from Haynesfield, is likely to come up a soft spot), he's much more likely to be a Derby starter at this point than a Shadwell owned-colt who has never been farther than 6F.

Neither will be in the KY Derby. Not that you said that, and one could probably argue either side, but even in this year's disaster of a TC chase these horses are pretenders. Though, if I had to take one, Mr. Fantasy would be head and shoulders ahead of the other. Taqqarub is laughable as a Derby contender.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Terrain?

He shouldn't be in the top 25 for a future bet on November's Discovery.

Where does that put Vineyard Haven?