Syn to Dirt Beyer Converter

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Can be found at CM Oreo's site pacefigures.com

The converter basically accounts for the value of a beaten length being more significant on synthetic tracks. Using it for Derby preps for example...

Pioneer of the Nile's '09 Beyers of 95, 90, and 96 become 100, 93, and 101.

Papa Clem's 94 in the San Felipe becomes a 99

Chocolate Candy's last two numbers of 91 and 94 become 95 and 99

General Quarters 95 in the Blue Grass becomes a 100

I Want Revenge's 92 in the Bob Lewis becomes a 96.

The Pampelmousse's 103 in the Sham stakes becomes a 111


Anyone who bets on races at cheaper tracks knows that synthetic track numbers are greatly inflated when slow horses are involved. The opposite of what happens with the fastest horses. A 45 on synthetic is equal to only a 33 dirt.

[CSC]

I don't the statistics to confirm this, but from my betting experience it seems to me that horses that have run on Pro Ride make a better transition to dirt than other synthetic tracks.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Pro-Ride is extremely closer friendly and plays more like a turf surface than a Cushion track or Tapeta does.

The Del Mar and Keeneland versions of polytrack are the two most random surfaces ever created.

Post time favorites record in stake races...

Del Mar poly: 8-for-47
Keeneland poly: 6-for-54

The national average for stake races is almost triple that.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Pro-Ride is extremely closer friendly and plays more like a turf surface than a Cushion track or Tapeta does.

The Del Mar and Keeneland versions of polytrack are the two most random surfaces ever created.

Post time favorites record in stake races...

Del Mar poly: 8-for-47
Keeneland poly: 6-for-54

The national average for stake races is almost triple that.

Great nugget of info.. Thanks.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Pro-Ride is extremely closer friendly and plays more like a turf surface than a Cushion track or Tapeta does.

No disrespect, but I find hard this to believe.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

No disrespect, but I find hard this to believe.

I don't...he said Cushion or Tapeta, not Poly.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I don't...he said Cushion or Tapeta, not Poly.

NT

I don't see the correlation to turf racing. From what I have seen, speed has done well some days as does closers. It's seems like a fair enough surface to me. Certainly more so than the pre-pro ride era when it was speed biased.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

No disrespect, but I find hard this to believe.

Why?

The Pro-Ride at Santa Anita is crazy closer friendly more often than not. It's not uncommon to see horses loafing on the lead through easy fractions and get mowed down by several horses late.

I've seen the charts and research CM Oreo did on it - and it basically confirms the obvious.

In Well Armed's final Dubai World Cup prep he was crawling in a big way and still got ran down.

I think it's more closer friendly than even Keeneland's poly. Evita Argentina steam rolled the boys in the Grade 2 San Vincente - she struggled to close ground when a dull 4th at 3/5 in the Beaumont. Stardom Bound struggled to close big ground when 3rd at 3/5 in the Ashland. Ventura didn't have that same explosive finish she did in the Breeders Cup at Keeneland when she lost the Madison at 2/5. Georgie Boy didn't get his chance. Pioneer of the Nile was 3rd beaten 7 lengths when he ran on it at age 2 in that race Square Eddie dominated.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Why?

The Pro-Ride at Santa Anita is crazy closer friendly more often than not. It's not uncommon to see horses loafing on the lead through easy fractions and get mowed down by several horses late.

I've seen the charts and research CM Oreo did on it - and it basically confirms the obvious.

In Well Armed's final Dubai World Cup prep he was crawling in a big way and still got ran down.

I think it's more closer friendly than even Keeneland's poly. Evita Argentina steam rolled the boys in the Grade 2 San Vincente - she struggled to close ground when a dull 4th at 3/5 in the Beaumont. Stardom Bound struggled to close big ground when 3rd at 3/5 in the Ashland. Ventura didn't have that same explosive finish she did in the Breeders Cup at Keeneland when she lost the Madison at 2/5. Georgie Boy didn't get his chance. Pioneer of the Nile was 3rd beaten 7 lengths when he ran on it at age 2 in that race Square Eddie dominated.

The example of Well Armed is interesting, the track that day at Dubai was a freeway. I think any American based speed horse worth his salt would have been dangerous on the lead and most likely would have won.

I'm not saying turf horses don't do well at SA post pro ride, that is obvious by last years results in the BC. What I am saying is pro ride is a fair surface for all horses, it's certainly more fairer than traditional dirt. It certainly didn't effect Midnight Lute who has won on both pro ride and traditional dirt.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Why?

The Pro-Ride at Santa Anita is crazy closer friendly more often than not. It's not uncommon to see horses loafing on the lead through easy fractions and get mowed down by several horses late.

I've seen the charts and research CM Oreo did on it - and it basically confirms the obvious.

In Well Armed's final Dubai World Cup prep he was crawling in a big way and still got ran down.

I think it's more closer friendly than even Keeneland's poly. Evita Argentina steam rolled the boys in the Grade 2 San Vincente - she struggled to close ground when a dull 4th at 3/5 in the Beaumont. Stardom Bound struggled to close big ground when 3rd at 3/5 in the Ashland. Ventura didn't have that same explosive finish she did in the Breeders Cup at Keeneland when she lost the Madison at 2/5. Georgie Boy didn't get his chance. Pioneer of the Nile was 3rd beaten 7 lengths when he ran on it at age 2 in that race Square Eddie dominated.

......i couldnt agree more. that place has become a nightmare for me. as you stated, the hollywood surface is alot closer to dirt .

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Can be found at CM Oreo's site pacefigures.com

The converter basically accounts for the value of a beaten length being more significant on synthetic tracks. Using it for Derby preps for example...

Pioneer of the Nile's '09 Beyers of 95, 90, and 96 become 100, 93, and 101.

Papa Clem's 94 in the San Felipe becomes a 99

Chocolate Candy's last two numbers of 91 and 94 become 95 and 99

General Quarters 95 in the Blue Grass becomes a 100

I Want Revenge's 92 in the Bob Lewis becomes a 96.

The Pampelmousse's 103 in the Sham stakes becomes a 111


Anyone who bets on races at cheaper tracks knows that synthetic track numbers are greatly inflated when slow horses are involved. The opposite of what happens with the fastest horses. A 45 on synthetic is equal to only a 33 dirt.

Thanks for posting this. Ashamed to admit I wasn't aware of pacefigures.com. Looking at the conversion values, it's clear that any Beyer speed fig on synthetic can be converted to the dirt equivalent by:

DirtFig = SynFig + (SynFig - 80)/3

Using The Pamplemousse's 103 in the Sham as an example, you'd have:

DirtFig = 103 + (103-80)/3, or

DirtFig = 103 + 7.67 = 110.67, which rounds to 111.

It works for Beyer "SynFigs" below 80, too.

--Dunbar