Never won on the dirt theory is dead

sdjcom · #1 05-02-2009, 08:35 PM

Mine That Bird, no wins on natural dirt 1st
POTN no wins on dirt 2nd

The Indomitable DrugS · #2 05-02-2009, 08:37 PM

Yeah - and derby starters with back to back defeats at Sunland Park for 1-for-32 trainers are now historically batting a thousand in the race.

Danzig · #3 05-02-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah - and derby starters with back to back defeats at Sunland Park for 1-for-32 trainers are now historically batting a thousand in the race.

that'll be the basis of my betting attack next year.

sdjcom · #4 05-02-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah - and derby starters with back to back defeats at Sunland Park for 1-for-32 trainers are now historically batting a thousand in the race.

i know it's crazy, MTB is out of Birdstone, remember SmartyJ, must need at least 11/4 to get close

Danzig · #5 05-02-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdjcom

i know it's crazy, MTB is out of Birdstone, remember SmartyJ, must need at least 11/4 to get close

miracle of miracles.

miraja2 · #6 05-02-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

miracle of miracles.

Identifying Birdstone as Mine that Bird's mother is only one of the things that didn't make sense to me about that post.

Danzig · #7 05-02-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

Identifying Birdstone as Mine that Bird's mother is only one of the things that didn't make sense to me about that post.

me too!

sdjcom · #8 05-02-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

Identifying Birdstone as Mine that Bird's mother is only one of the things that didn't make sense to me about that post.

i worded it wrong should have said sired not out of my screw-up

gales0678 · #9 05-02-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdjcom

i know it's crazy, MTB is out of Birdstone, remember SmartyJ, must need at least 11/4 to get close

drugs did suggest i unload on him , he most have saw something in the pp's

miraja2 · #10 05-02-2009, 08:39 PM

This is stupid.
Anyone that throws out a horse just because it hadn't won (or run) on dirt was foolish.
Anyone that says past dirt form doesn't matter, is also foolish.
Horses must be taken one at a time. Some can run well on multiple sufraces. Some can't.

The idea that there was some "theory" that should now be tossed out the window because of something Mine that Bird did, doesn't make any sense to me at all. Starting a thread to make such a proclamation....makes even less.

King Glorious · #11 05-02-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

This is stupid.
Anyone that throws out a horse just because it hadn't won (or run) on dirt was foolish.
Anyone that says past dirt form doesn't matter, is also foolish.
Horses must be taken one at a time. Some can run well on multiple sufraces. Some can't.

The idea that there was some "theory" that should now be tossed out the window because of something Mine that Bird did, doesn't make any sense to me at all. Starting a thread to make such a proclamation....makes even less.

You better watch it. There are certain God-like (at least in their own minds) figures on this board that will tell you otherwise and if you didn't agree with them, you were stupid, an idiot, or both.

Danzig · #12 05-02-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

You better watch it. There are certain God-like (at least in their own minds) figures on this board that will tell you otherwise and if you didn't agree with them, you were stupid, an idiot, or both.

actually, what miraja wrote is what most have said. i don't think anyone has said a poly horse can't run on dirt. i think most have said that some can, and some can't. but for many, they would rather bet on a known dirter than one they aren't sure of. this sure has gotten turned into a big deal.

King Glorious · #13 05-02-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

actually, what miraja wrote is what most have said. i don't think anyone has said a poly horse can't run on dirt. i think most have said that some can, and some can't. but for many, they would rather bet on a known dirter than one they aren't sure of. this sure has gotten turned into a big deal.

We know there was a certain one that said he can't. Insisted he can't. Saying you'd rather get a higher price on one that hadn't shown he can do it, that makes perfect sense. But insisting that a horse can't do it when he'd never tried it was kinda surprising to me considering the source.

sdjcom · #14 05-02-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

This is stupid.
Anyone that throws out a horse just because it hadn't won (or run) on dirt was foolish.
Anyone that says past dirt form doesn't matter, is also foolish.
Horses must be taken one at a time. Some can run well on multiple sufraces. Some can't.

The idea that there was some "theory" that should now be tossed out the window because of something Mine that Bird did, doesn't make any sense to me at all. Starting a thread to make such a proclamation....makes even less.

if it makes no sense then why are you typing away on it? are you the thread judge? it was to stir conversation on an issue many talked about with POTN.not to create ill feelings

ateamstupid · #15 05-02-2009, 08:39 PM

Right, one exacta singlehandedly kills the significance of having dirt experience. Mine That Bird beat a neutered field by saving all the ground, and POTN was a mediocre, drifting out second by a nose.

the_fat_man · #16 05-02-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

POTN was a mediocre, drifting out second by a nose.

A lot better finish than the anti-POLYITES (i.e., the not FAST ENOUGH crowd) would have had us believe.

The bashing of these horses, and this surface, really needs to stop.

Not to worry, however. I understand Beyer is tackling the INEFFICIENCY of his figures on artificial surfaces problem. Yeah, all the major minds in his team are getting together and they're gonna hammer out tighter non-dirt figs; so, his disciples should be back in the game anytime now.

blackthroatedwind · #17 05-02-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

A lot better finish than the anti-POLYITES (i.e., the not FAST ENOUGH crowd) would have had us believe.

The bashing of these horses, and this surface, really needs to stop.

Not to worry, however. I understand Beyer is tackling the INEFFICIENCY of his figures on artificial surfaces problem. Yeah, all the major minds in his team are getting together and they're gonna hammer out tighter non-dirt figs; so, his disciples should be back in the game anytime now.

No sane person can possibly think Pioneer of the Nile ran a particularly good race today. He clunked along faster than most of the others. Congratulations. One horse ran.....and eighteen didn't. Some just didn't show up a little ( or a lot ) more than others.

kgar311 · #18 05-02-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No sane person can possibly think Pioneer of the Nile ran a particularly good race today. He clunked along faster than most of the others. Congratulations. One horse ran.....and eighteen didn't. Some just didn't show up a little ( or a lot ) more than others.

Musket Man ran with the track set up dead against him and he still finished second in my book

blackthroatedwind · #19 05-02-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

Musket Man ran with the track set up dead against him and he still finished second in my book

Musket Man ran his usual unspectacular race. He's a very " nice " horse....but hardly of the quality one would hope for a Classic winner. He, along with Pioneer of the Nile, ran their expected races. They were good enough to lose the KY Derby by almost seven lengths. Sometimes that means you finish ninth and tenth....and once a century second and third.

sdjcom · #20 05-02-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No sane person can possibly think Pioneer of the Nile ran a particularly good race today. He clunked along faster than most of the others. Congratulations. One horse ran.....and eighteen didn't. Some just didn't show up a little ( or a lot ) more than others.

18 horses didn't show up? after weeks of training work-outs and fine tuning only a couple of horses showed up? i don't buy it. The top four handled a tough track the others could not.