In defense of the Donald

somerfrost · #1 05-12-2009, 12:43 PM

Trump gets his share of negative press (much earned) but he made the right decision today, refusing to bow to political pressure and use the hypocritical excuse of some PG rated pictures, he verified that Miss America will keep her crown. I disagree with her position but respect 100% her right to voice it, the question was posed for political reasons...well, if you don't want an honest answer, don't ask the question! I support gay rights 100% including the right to marry and will ALWAYS voice my opinion...she has the same right! ATTA BOY DONALD!

brianwspencer · #2 05-12-2009, 01:04 PM

I couldn't possibly care less about this girl getting to play the victim card for the rest of her 15 minutes of fame...

But just one thing that really bothers me in your premise that she 'has the same right to voice her opinion.'

Of course she does. The "gays are stifling free speech" thing is one of the wingnuts favorite straw men. Nobody has claimed that she doesn't have the right to say what she said, just as during the Prop 8 campaign, nobody claimed that those supporting Prop 8 had no right to speak what they believed.

What they're confusing it with however, is that they don't have some new unfettered right to speak without consequences that none of the rest of us have. Those who were boycotted after they donated money to Prop 8 want to pretend they’re the victims. Nobody claimed they didn’t have a ‘right’ to do what they did – but we certainly also have the right to hold people accountable for their opinions. If you put your money where your mouth is, don’t get all mad when people put their money where their mouth is by refusing to give you any of it anymore. Boo-hoo. Man up and accept the consequences of your actions.

So, long story short – great for Carrie that she keeps her title even though she’s violated several terms of the pageant contract – that’s largely irrelevant to me….just wanted to point out that every argument about “freedom of speech” in this situation, Prop 8, and in general anything to do with gay rights, is a total straw man, since I've yet to see a single instance in America of free speech actually being denied. Freedom to say what you want to say is not the same thing as freedom to be able to do it without consequences. Simple stuff, really.

Sorry her opinion is an increasingly unpopular one and she got her feet held to the fire for it.

Antitrust32 · #3 05-12-2009, 01:09 PM

I agree with Brian that people should have voiced their disappointment with her answer... but the way the people like Perez Hilton and others went about it was embarrassing in my opinion. No reason to attack her so personally and call her all sorts of names. I think it does more for the cause to at least look civilized when discussing your argument.

She has the right to her opinion, and the right to say it without being attacked personally. Granted I wish people didnt have the opinion she has anymore..

somerfrost · #4 05-12-2009, 01:27 PM

I think we are all saying the same thing about this specific case...I agree with Brian that the radical right creates the myth that they are somehow "Victims" when they promulgate some of their more vicious, narrow-minded, racist and/or intolerant views...of course they should be held responsible for their words as are we all but this was a case of "must be a slow news day" reporting, after all, this was a beauty contest nothing more!

Antitrust32 · #5 05-12-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I think we are all saying the same thing about this specific case...I agree with Brian that the radical right creates the myth that they are somehow "Victims" when they promulgate some of their more vicious, narrow-minded, racist and/or intolerant views...of course they should be held responsible for their words as are we all but this was a case of "must be a slow news day" reporting, after all, this was a beauty contest nothing more!

I 100% agree with Brian and you about this point.

I just wish the gay community would have showed a little more class and not attached her so personally and in nasty ways.

Also I thought it was very un-cool how now she decides to make all sorts of commercials in "defense of marriage".

also agree with mirage that she now makes the perfect VP candidate... all you have to do is be pretty, go to church 5 times a week, and speak out against gays. she seems to be on Par with mrs Palin in all sorts of ways (including her ability to answer a question in an interview).

and beauty pagents are so stupid anyway. There's 50 smoking hot girls on stage and I still cant even watch it. Her answer to that question is the best thing that has ever happened to these stupid shows.

somerfrost · #6 05-12-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I 100% agree with Brian and you about this point.

I just wish the gay community would have showed a little more class and not attached her so personally and in nasty ways.

Also I thought it was very un-cool how now she decides to make all sorts of commercials in "defense of marriage".

also agree with mirage that she now makes the perfect VP candidate... all you have to do is be pretty, go to church 5 times a week, and speak out against gays. she seems to be on Par with mrs Palin in all sorts of ways (including her ability to answer a question in an interview).

and beauty pagents are so stupid anyway. There's 50 smoking hot girls on stage and I still cant even watch it. Her answer to that question is the best thing that has ever happened to these stupid shows.

I agree...frankly I'd have been happier if she gave us full frontal nudity or even a home movie like Paris...a little touch of the real world would do wonders for these shams we call contests. Give me Melissa-Ashley or Marilyn Chambers (RIP) any day over these artificially enhanced "plastic" examples of Christian mythology (there I go, sorry...but the hypocrisy overwhelms at times.)

miraja2 · #7 05-12-2009, 01:55 PM

The ironic thing about this issue (and the part of it that most pisses me off) is that it is always cast as an issue between gay activists and the far right, or advocates for social justice and the Republican Party. In truth, these issues could be resolved with very little help from the Republicans if many Democrats showed a little more political courage.
The thing that most pisses me off is all of the cowardly Democrats that refuse to take a stand on the issue. Of course the far right and people who think like Miss Cali are going to oppose it. They're morons. But who really cares about some beauty contest person, or Rush Limbaugh, when there are hundreds of elected officials around the country from a supposedly liberal party that do absolutely nothing?
In my opinion, activists should spend more time lobbying Democrats to give a sh!t than they should wasting their time on doing battle with people like this.

miraja2 · #8 05-12-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I couldn't possibly care less about this girl getting to play the victim card for the rest of her 15 minutes of fame....

15 minutes? Are you kidding? Moronic bigots who compete in beauty contests are considered by many to be perfect candidates for vice-president.

somerfrost · #9 05-12-2009, 01:39 PM

LOL....at least they get to be Governor of Alaska...but in fairness, Sarah isn't a moron and less of a bigot than a lot of right-wingers. She's one of those folks that fall under the catagory of "I respect all folks rights but...."