Good letter

[Cannon Shell]

The health debate isn't just about health or the role of government in the economy ("Health Debate Isn't About Health," Capital Journal, Aug. 11). It is about the Constitution, liberty and the future of the republic. As a high-school government teacher for 11 years, I have read the Constitution thoroughly and completely hundreds of times. The Constitution is about limiting government—keeping it as small and unobtrusive as possible. It is about the government protecting property, not taking away from one group to give to another.

As our government gets further away from those basic principles, we move toward the tyranny that the Founding Fathers hoped to avoid. The health bill may be well-intentioned, but it gives government sweeping powers to make health-care decisions concerning everything from preventing life (abortion) to ending it (end-of-life counseling). It may not intend to put the government between the physician and the patient but it gives the government unprecedented power to do just that.

There is no authority in the Constitution for government to take over our health care, just as there was no authority in the Constitution to take over General Motors or take taxpayer money to bail out failing banks. The government decided to throw the Constitution under the bus during the last year of the Bush administration, and the current administration has driven the bus back and forth over the document. The people of this country have a right to be angry and fearful for both our liberty and the future of our republic.
David Williams

Fairfax, Va.

[Riot]

The above is out and out nonsense.

Both House versions and the Senate version of healthcare reform gives the government ZERO power to make health care decisions for you, or to influence those decisions. The government will NOT be taking over your health care.

That is an out and out lie.

If one goes on CNN.com under politics, both the last Senate and biggest House versions of these bills are there.

NONE OF THE ABOVE is in either bill.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

The above is out and out nonsense.

Both House versions and the Senate version of healthcare reform gives the government ZERO power to make health care decisions for you, or to influence those decisions. The government will NOT be taking over your health care.
That is an out and out lie.

If one goes on CNN.com under politics, both the last Senate and biggest House versions of these bills are there.

NONE OF THE ABOVE is in either bill.

We finally agree! Drop this nonsense and and keep Gov. out of health care completely! Hooray and welcome back to the Rep. party. Let's get on to more important things like how Cap and Trade will destroy American businesses and give the world including those not so friendly to us an advantage.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

We finally agree! Drop this nonsense and and keep Gov. out of health care completely! Hooray and welcome back to the Rep. party. Let's get on to more important things like how Cap and Trade will destroy American businesses and give the world including those not so friendly to us an advantage.

Oh, I'm a Republican. You, however, might consider that you possibly are a closet Libertarian

Cap and Trade worked for sulfer emissions

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Oh, I'm a Republican. You, however, might consider that you possibly are a closet Libertarian

Cap and Trade worked for sulfer emissions

why do you suppose some Dr.'s refuse Medicaid patients but not privately insured patients? And do those Dr.'s tend to be the bottom of the barrel or the cream of the crop?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

why do you suppose some Dr.'s refuse Medicaid patients but not privately insured patients? And do those Dr.'s tend to be the bottom of the barrel or the cream of the crop?

Because Medicaid pays less than some private insurance companies. In my experience (15 years in human healthcare before I became a vet) the ability of the doctor has nothing to do with what health insurances they accept (Medicaid is just another health insurance company, that happens to be the government)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

why do you suppose some Dr.'s refuse Medicaid patients but not privately insured patients? And do those Dr.'s tend to be the bottom of the barrel or the cream of the crop?

maybe they're afraid it'll take forever to get reimbursed? you know, like the dealers and the cash for clunkers program.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Riot

The above is out and out nonsense.

Both House versions and the Senate version of healthcare reform gives the government ZERO power to make health care decisions for you, or to influence those decisions. The government will NOT be taking over your health care.

That is an out and out lie.

If one goes on CNN.com under politics, both the last Senate and biggest House versions of these bills are there.

NONE OF THE ABOVE is in either bill.

You have to be kidding.

[SOREHOOF]

Why would you want the Govt. to have all of your medical records? Isn't that kind of an invasion of privacy? Where is the A.C.L.U. when you need them?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

You have to be kidding.

No, I'm not. There are no death panels. There is no repeal of HIPPA regarding medical records. There is no government making healthcare decisions for you. There is no single-payer. There will be a debate when the three bills go to committee regarding offering a public option or a co-op, there will probably be a public option. Nobody will be affected unless they are uninsured and can now get insurance. Nobody has to change or give up their current health plan. It may become less expensive to you. And of course, you won't have to worry about being thrown off your current insurance plan after you have a claim, or worry about all companies refusing to insure you because you've had a previous health problem, or worry about losing your current insurance because you can't afford COBRA and you've lost your job.

Please, show me where the government will "control" my health care and make my healthcare decisions for me. Where they will tell me what I can have done, where I can have it done, and who will do it. Of course, my insurance company tells me that right now - here's the hospitals in your plan, here's the doctors in your plan, and here's what we will pay for. Unless, of course, we change our mind after you make the claim, then we can just arbitrarily decide not to pay after we've said we will.

That will stop. Yes, That's government control, I suppose - passing law not allowing insurance companies to do that to their clients anymore.

But go ahead. Tell me how the government will control my health care, and make my healthcare decisions for me. Something ... concrete and factual. Not just, "You just don't get it!" or "Are you kidding?" or "Oh, yeah, they will!" or "Sputter, sputter, anger, anger, I hate the government!"

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, I'm not. There are no death panels. There is no repeal of HIPPA regarding medical records. There is no government making healthcare decisions for you. There is no single-payer. There will be a debate when the three bills go to committee regarding offering a public option or a co-op, there will probably be a public option. Nobody will be affected unless they are uninsured and can now get insurance. Nobody has to change or give up their current health plan. It may become less expensive to you. And of course, you won't have to worry about being thrown off your current insurance plan after you have a claim, or worry about all companies refusing to insure you because you've had a previous health problem, or worry about losing your current insurance because you can't afford COBRA and you've lost your job.

Please, show me where the government will "control" my health care and make my healthcare decisions for me. Where they will tell me what I can have done, where I can have it done, and who will do it. Of course, my insurance company tells me that right now - here's the hospitals in your plan, here's the doctors in your plan, and here's what we will pay for. Unless, of course, we change our mind after you make the claim, then we can just arbitrarily decide not to pay after we've said we will.

That will stop. Yes, That's government control, I suppose - passing law not allowing insurance companies to do that to their clients anymore.

But go ahead. Tell me how the government will control my health care, and make my healthcare decisions for me. Something ... concrete and factual. Not just, "You just don't get it!" or "Are you kidding?" or "Oh, yeah, they will!" or "Sputter, sputter, anger, anger, I hate the government!"

I can not believe you actually believe this. I have heard Obama say that you won't have to give up your current plan if you don't want to so many times, but what he is not telling you is your plan as it exists today won't exist if this healthcare reform bill is passed. No company is going to continue to offer health insurance to their employees because it will be cheaper to go on the government plan. How do you think they are going to pay for this? In today's current system there are numerous hospitals, etc. that will not and can not refuse care regardless or whether you have insurance. By being employed and paying for my health care plan I am able to choose what and how I want to handle and what I can afford as far my medical needs go. Do you really think that if I am 70 yrs old and in not great health (let's say I have had numerous heart attacks) that if I am on the government's plan that they will pay for my knee to be replaced? How about people with MS? My father had cancer that 90% of the dr's said that they needed to cut his whole leg off, he continued to search out additional opinions and today has 2 healthy legs, walks with a slight limp and has been cancer free for 15+ yrs. Do you think under the government's plan that he would have been able to receive numerous opinions? The government can't even compete with UPS or Fedex with something as simple as delivering overnight packages and the post office is losing millions of dollars and would be bankrupt if it was a private business and you think it is a good idea for them to be in charge of healthcare? If they can't compete with the private businesses in something so simple what makes you think they can do so with healthcare?

[Smooth Operator]

Lol ... gramps won't be able to get his knee replaced, eh, wiphan?




Con fear machine hitting on all cylinders now...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The health debate isn't just about health or the role of government in the economy ("Health Debate Isn't About Health," Capital Journal, Aug. 11). It is about the Constitution, liberty and the future of the republic. As a high-school government teacher for 11 years, I have read the Constitution thoroughly and completely hundreds of times. The Constitution is about limiting government—keeping it as small and unobtrusive as possible. It is about the government protecting property, not taking away from one group to give to another.

As our government gets further away from those basic principles, we move toward the tyranny that the Founding Fathers hoped to avoid. The health bill may be well-intentioned, but it gives government sweeping powers to make health-care decisions concerning everything from preventing life (abortion) to ending it (end-of-life counseling). It may not intend to put the government between the physician and the patient but it gives the government unprecedented power to do just that.

There is no authority in the Constitution for government to take over our health care, just as there was no authority in the Constitution to take over General Motors or take taxpayer money to bail out failing banks. The government decided to throw the Constitution under the bus during the last year of the Bush administration, and the current administration has driven the bus back and forth over the document. The people of this country have a right to be angry and fearful for both our liberty and the future of our republic.
David Williams

Fairfax, Va.

he's right. the fed was never intended to become the bloated lump of lard it has become. thomas jefferson wouldn't recognize it, and would be appalled.

[Danzig]

just saw this about aarp and it's members:


http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/...ap6787521.html