Pacific Classic

[miraja2]

The nine that are expected to run in the 16th edition of Del Mar’s annual signature event are Lava Man, Giacomo, Perfect Drift, Magnum, Preachinatthebar, Super Frolic, Good Reward, Papi Chullo and Top This and That.

People keep waiting for Lava Man to take a step backwards, and while he may do that sometime this year, I don't think it will be in this race and I don't think it will happen in California. I think this race will be pretty chalky with Lava Man over Perfect Drift and/or Giacomo.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by miraja2

The nine that are expected to run in the 16th edition of Del Mar’s annual signature event are Lava Man, Giacomo, Perfect Drift, Magnum, Preachinatthebar, Super Frolic, Good Reward, Papi Chullo and Top This and That.

People keep waiting for Lava Man to take a step backwards, and while he may do that sometime this year, I don't think it will be in this race and I don't think it will happen in California. I think this race will be pretty chalky with Lava Man over Perfect Drift and/or Giacomo.

All I can say is they are lucky Surf Cat is on the sidelines....

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by GPK

All I can say is they are lucky Surf Cat is on the sidelines....

Speaking of Surf Cat, where is Borrego? Is he retired?

[Gander]

Thats a pretty nice field. Better than I expected based on what Delmar has put out thus far.

HOY is Lava Mans for the. Just 2 more wins and we get a "people's horse" to capture this award. Hard not to root for a guy like this, and the Tin Man.

Originally Posted by Gander

Thats a pretty nice field. Better than I expected based on what Delmar has put out thus far.

HOY is Lava Mans for the. Just 2 more wins and we get a "people's horse" to capture this award. Hard not to root for a guy like this, and the Tin Man.

Oh I agree. Very hard to knock the horse. Also very hard not to want the horse to win. But the horse hasnt done anything wrong all year and two more wins earns him HOY.

[Gander]

Well now that Flower Alley has lost any chance he ever had at HOY, there is only Bernardini to worry about for those honors.

I told Kev that if English Channel had won the Arl Million and went on to win the BC Turf, he may have a realistic shot at it.

Originally Posted by Gander

Well now that Flower Alley has lost any chance he ever had at HOY, there is only Bernardini to worry about for those honors.

I told Kev that if English Channel had won the Arl Million and went on to win the BC Turf, he may have a realistic shot at it.

English Channel ran a good race Saturday. But when you let a horse that is as experienced as The Tin Man go to an easy lead then you arent going to catch him. With all that said, English Channel is prob the 4th best turf horse in the country right now.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

English Channel ran a good race Saturday. But when you let a horse that is as experienced as The Tin Man go to an easy lead then you arent going to catch him. With all that said, English Channel is prob the 4th best turf horse in the country right now.

whos the top 3 EB?

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by Gander

Well now that Flower Alley has lost any chance he ever had at HOY, there is only Bernardini to worry about for those honors.
.

Invasor has 3 G1s. I wouldn't throw him out of the race for HOY

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

Invasor has 3 G1s. I wouldn't throw him out of the race for HOY

Good point. He is wins his next two he is HOY. What makes me mad is that Showing Up can win his next two and wont even get a sniff at HOY.

[GPK]

again....Gorella took the place of Megahertz and Intercontinental when they both retired as my favorite female....but I have a hard time placing her the best turf horse in the country. Shes easily top 5....but I can't annoint her the best yet.

[Gander]

I think you guys are not giving the Tin Man as much credit as he deserves because of his running style. Horses like this win races and its always chocked up to the fact that he was loose on an uncontested lead.

Horses like English Channel and Kittens Joy win races from rating just off the pace and they are declared turf machines, it never comes up that they had perfect set ups. Only horses like the Tin Man who dictates his own wins and losses.

On the flip side, a horse like Gorella wins, and people say the race fell apart and was handed to her on a platter. Nonsense, the horse was flat out awesome and could have beaten many top males on Saturday.

I did not and still do not think the Tin Man is better or worse than English Channel or Cacique. I think they are all pretty close and pace and luck determines which horse wins on any given time they meet. Its as simple as that.

[miraja2]

Interesting discussion but getting back to the Pacific Classic....does anyone like someone other than the 3 I mentioned (Lava Man-Giac-Perfect Drift) in this spot? Who could ruin my trifecta here and why?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Interesting discussion but getting back to the Pacific Classic....does anyone like someone other than the 3 I mentioned (Lava Man-Giac-Perfect Drift) in this spot? Who could ruin my trifecta here and why?

all/PD/all
all/all/PD

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

I think you guys are not giving the Tin Man as much credit as he deserves because of his running style. Horses like this win races and its always chocked up to the fact that he was loose on an uncontested lead.

Horses like English Channel and Kittens Joy win races from rating just off the pace and they are declared turf machines, it never comes up that they had perfect set ups. Only horses like the Tin Man who dictates his own wins and losses.

On the flip side, a horse like Gorella wins, and people say the race fell apart and was handed to her on a platter. Nonsense, the horse was flat out awesome and could have beaten many top males on Saturday.

I did not and still do not think the Tin Man is better or worse than English Channel or Cacique. I think they are all pretty close and pace and luck determines which horse wins on any given time they meet. Its as simple as that.

thats the beauty of turf racing.

Pace makes the race....always has...always will.

Tim, you know how much I loved megahertz.....loved watching her lounging around in the back of the field....baking cookies...drinking tea...watching tv...while they did all the running up front. But there were a few times where she and the jock were caught sleeping and the pace in front of them wasn't so hot and she was left with too much work to do in a slowly run race and she wouldn't win. Gorella hasn't faced that scenario yet this year and it will be interesting to see how she fares when she does.


You have to give Victor as much credit as anyone...he gave the perfect ride on Tin Man. I think the other jocks did a piss poor job in that race. A trained chimp could read the PP's and see that he was the lone speed in the race and if let loose on a lead like that...it would be all over...and it was. As much the other jockeys fault than anything.

[Gander]

Let me add that I was very much against Tin Man when originally analyzing this race and the horses I thought most likely to win were Ace and Better Talk Now.

After watching the race, this is clearly what I think:

1) Yes the other jockeys were mistaken to let Tin Man go out and run slow.
2) Yes English Channel got a wide trip, but whos to say it cost him a win? Will never know.
3) Cacique got the best trip of anyone besides Tin Man and even with the pace being as slow as it was, he had every shot to go by if he was really that good. He wasnt.
4) Better Talk Now should retire. First time in his life hes run 2 very poor back to back races.
5) Tin Man is a lot better than I thought.

[Gander]

Gorella is a lot better than I gave her credit for being. Film Maker is a very good horse. Gorella is a truly great horse, I wont be betting against her until she runs against men again.

[GPK]

see....I love this....this thread is the reason I love this board. Different people giving different opinions and noone getting mad, upset, calling others names.....its just a great debate about a topic that we all love.

Gorella's last two races are the key to me. She closed on the outside Saturday with such ease. I mean in 50 yards she was 6 lengths in front. Also her last race was more impressive to me. A small field, with a horse loose on the lead and she caught the horse and was drawing away at the wire. I loved Gorella last year when she made her debut at Keeneland. I think they have figured out the horse is best when able to come running on the outside. I feel Gorella can win off a slow pace and with a fast pace. Again, lb per lb she is the best turf horse.

The Tin Man is a great story and what a great horse. Even though the horse is 8-the horse really is like a 4 or 5 year old because he hasnt been worn down by continuous years of racing. To me The Tin Man needs to be able to dictate his own race. I dont think he is as versatile as a horse like Gorella or Cacique or English Channel. But he is a very very good horse.

Originally Posted by Gander

Let me add that I was very much against Tin Man when originally analyzing this race and the horses I thought most likely to win were Ace and Better Talk Now.

After watching the race, this is clearly what I think:

1) Yes the other jockeys were mistaken to let Tin Man go out and run slow.
2) Yes English Channel got a wide trip, but whos to say it cost him a win? Will never know.
3) Cacique got the best trip of anyone besides Tin Man and even with the pace being as slow as it was, he had every shot to go by if he was really that good. He wasnt.
4) Better Talk Now should retire. First time in his life hes run 2 very poor back to back races.
5) Tin Man is a lot better than I thought.

Tim your statement on number 3 is absolutely absurd, and I mean ridiculous. The winner came home in 22:3. There is absolutely no way that Cacique or anyone else was going to go by, Secretariat wouldn't have gone by. At a mile and a quarter when a horse is on the hedge saving all ground and comes home in 22:3, well I mean you might not see that the rest of your life. It was the function of a pace that was TWENTY LENGTHS SLOWER than the fillies ran in the Beverly D. Cacique was very good, I just don't know where you are coming from by saying he had every chance to get by. Do you have any idea how crazy that is to say? He was two lengths back and also in tghe outside path, in order to have "gotten by" the winner he would have to have come home in 22 flat. Do you really think its reasonable or at all sane to say that a horse wasn't that good because he couldn't come home in 22 flat for the last 1/4 mile of a 1 1/4 turf race? Tim, thats just maniacal.