Dumdolphin up to their old tricks again

[Indian Charlie]

Just read they are aiming Desert Party for all one turn races the rest of the year, with the Forego the next big target, followed by the BC dirt mile.

Do they seriously believe this horse is a sprinter?????????

Regal Ransom makes his comeback in the Suburban.

They are hard to figure out sometimes.

[blackthroatedwind]

I was reading that article and I wonder if they even realize that the Vanderbilt is now a Grade 1.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Werent they supposed to have two or three Derby wins by now?

They have won the Italian Derby twice and the English Derby once...yeah, I know...

I hope they hire you.

Godolphin did win 4 grade 1 races at the Spa last year if memory serve correct so they must do some things right...right?

Scat

[blackthroatedwind]

Godolphin has plenty of terrific horses and I love seeing them run. However, none of that makes them exempt from critical analysis.

They have spent a crazy amount of money for horses. I should hope they win some big races. However, their return on investment isn't exactly something to be proud of. Perhaps this doesn't matter to them. But, that doesn't change the bottom line.

[NTamm1215]

Desert Party's PPs would hardly give you an indication that he's a router.

NT

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Just read they are aiming Desert Party for all one turn races the rest of the year, with the Forego the next big target, followed by the BC dirt mile.

Do they seriously believe this horse is a sprinter?????????

They are hard to figure out sometimes.

Godolphin can't win, ever, really...right...

Because if they came out tomorrow and said Desert Party will be aimed for the classic races, over 9 and 10 furlongs, people would be on here saying that they are crazy, his two wins in 2010 were over six and seven furlongs, and he did both of them easy, he seems to enjoy sprinting...etc...

Come on.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Just read they are aiming Desert Party for all one turn races the rest of the year, with the Forego the next big target, followed by the BC dirt mile.

To me that seems like a perfectly logical race in which to point the horse.

[10 pnt move up]

Where is gm10, this thread was made for that poster.

[RolloTomasi]

Godolphin has about 5 horses that ought to point to the Mile. Gayego, Regal Ransom, Desert Party, Giralomo and perhaps even Vineyard Haven.

Whoever they decide to put in the Classic and Sprint at the last minute will probably be automatic tosses.

Of course, if you're really optimistic, perhaps Vale Of York, Atomic Rain, and West Side Bernie will take the pressure off in finding a Classic hopeful.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Godolphin has about 5 horses that ought to point to the Mile. Gayego, Regal Ransom, Desert Party, Giralomo and perhaps even Vineyard Haven.

Whoever they decide to put in the Classic and Sprint at the last minute will probably be automatic tosses.

Of course, if you're really optimistic, perhaps Vale Of York, Atomic Rain, and West Side Bernie will take the pressure off in finding a Classic hopeful.

I think Giralomo is totally legit Classic horse if he improves off of last year. Regal Ransom might be a cut below the top horses but he is usefull enough going long, I think the pace might get 2 hot for him in a mile race.... Gayego IMO SUCKS. Desert Party is all the sudden one of the top sprinters around, IMO,

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I think Giralomo is totally legit Classic horse if he improves off of last year. Regal Ransom might be a cut below the top horses but he is usefull enough going long, I think the pace might get 2 hot for him in a mile race.... Gayego IMO SUCKS. Desert Party is all the sudden one of the top sprinters around, IMO,

Giralomo is definitely bred to stay 10f, but he was a rush job last year, and he'll be a rush job this year, too.

Though she was highly successful last year, I think their campaign with Music Note was all over the place. She ran like a short horse in the Phipps, so they panic and cut her back in distance, she crushes the Ballerina, and so they step her back up in trip instead of perhaps targeting the FM sprinter Eclipse (cuz they had little shot at Zenyatta's title). Sounds foolish to criticize given Music Note's two Grade 1 scores, but I think those victories might have been in spite of Godolphin's efforts.

I can totally see Giralomo going through the same sort of ringer and coming up goose eggs. Not really sure what he's targeting anyways. He's being given a tall order if he's supposed to show up in the Woodward and JCGC off the bench. Hopefully there's an allowance race in there somewhere.

I think there's a world of difference between a 7f race and a 6f race, so I won't put Desert Party in the top sprint group as far as the BC is concerned. A campaign like Kodiak Kowboy or Bribon last year could get him an Eclipse, however.

[slotdirt]

When was the last time West Side Bernie even ran? Has he run since Derby '09?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

When was the last time West Side Bernie even ran? Has he run since Derby '09?

He was demolished in a 7f race in Dubai over the winter. The winner was ex-American sprinter Barbecue Eddie.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

When was the last time West Side Bernie even ran? Has he run since Derby '09?

Was just looking at the Holy Bull chart from '09 because there's a horse in for $5k on Friday at MTH that went off favored, and the winner was in for $30 last week. What an incredibly key negative race.

SARATOGA SINNER: Injured, off, lost 8 races before winning a $30k N3L at CD last week
BEAR'S ROCKET: Has been dreadful in 5 losses including a 50 length drubbing in the A Little Warm race yesterday
WEST SIDE BERNIE: Ran ok in the Wood Memorial but otherwise has been clobbered
BEETHOVEN: 3rd in the FoY, has not run since
STATELY CHARACTER: has run 14 times since without hitting the board, with typical comments being "No Factor" "Outrun" "Trailed Throughout"
BRUCE N AUTUMN: Switched to turf thereafter, didn't matter; has lost 6 in a row without hitting the board
DANGER TO SOCIETY: Went off favored, has run 5 times since and has not hit the board despite being 7/5 or lower 3 times; most recently was in a $15k N3L at Philly, goes for $5k on Friday at MTH
ROCKLAND: Finished 2nd for $25k N2L a couple weeks ago at DEL as the favorite, was crushed in his other 5 starts
EL CRESPO: Switched to turf thereafter, won Palm Beach next out; been serviceable but erratic in 12 starts since with no wins
IDOL MAKER: Ran once since in an allowance at BEL, finished last at 5-1

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by philcski

Was just looking at the Holy Bull chart from '09 because there's a horse in for $5k on Friday at MTH that went off favored, and the winner was in for $30 last week. What an incredibly key negative race.

SARATOGA SINNER: Injured, off, lost 8 races before winning a $30k N3L at CD last week
BEAR'S ROCKET: Has been dreadful in 5 losses including a 50 length drubbing in the A Little Warm race yesterday
WEST SIDE BERNIE: Ran ok in the Wood Memorial but otherwise has been clobbered
BEETHOVEN: 3rd in the FoY, has not run since
STATELY CHARACTER: has run 14 times since without hitting the board, with typical comments being "No Factor" "Outrun" "Trailed Throughout"
BRUCE N AUTUMN: Switched to turf thereafter, didn't matter; has lost 6 in a row without hitting the board
DANGER TO SOCIETY: Went off favored, has run 5 times since and has not hit the board despite being 7/5 or lower 3 times; most recently was in a $15k N3L at Philly, goes for $5k on Friday at MTH
ROCKLAND: Finished 2nd for $25k N2L a couple weeks ago at DEL as the favorite, was crushed in his other 5 starts
EL CRESPO: Switched to turf thereafter, won Palm Beach next out; been serviceable but erratic in 12 starts since with no wins
IDOL MAKER: Ran once since in an allowance at BEL, finished last at 5-1

Amazing.

Not surprising the first couple didn't run back considering the way the track was playing that day but it's pretty amazing that basically everyone fell off the face of the earth after that race.

El Crespo has to be the idol of all the others. Relatively speaking he's a champ.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Amazing.

Not surprising the first couple didn't run back considering the way the track was playing that day but it's pretty amazing that basically everyone fell off the face of the earth after that race.

El Crespo has to be the idol of all the others. Relatively speaking he's a champ.

Agreed on the first two getting the best of it- myself and a few others from DT were there that day and it was A++ speed favoring if I've ever seen a speed favoring track. A bunch of us bet Finallymadeit in the Donn because of that and he certainly gave us a thrill at 30-1.

That said, the performance of the day was in the race in between the two stakes. Warrior's Reward in his career debut came from WAY off a moderate pace at 30-1. It was somewhat of a collapsing race, but we all know what he's capable of now.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Just read they are aiming Desert Party for all one turn races the rest of the year, with the Forego the next big target, followed by the BC dirt mile.

Do they seriously believe this horse is a sprinter?????????

Why wouldn't he be a sprinter?

He's made six starts going 7F and under and he's won five of them..

Considering many of their past decisions... It's a stroke of genius for Godolphin to realize that he is a sprinter..

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

Why wouldn't he be a sprinter?

He's made six starts going 7F and under and he's won five of them..

Considering many of their past decisions... It's a stroke of genius for Godolphin to realize that he is a sprinter..

I'm not really sure what makes people think he's a sprinter, other than pretty circumstantial PPs.

Of those six starts going 7 or less, three were as a two year old, after he sold for 2+ million at a 2yo in training sale. None of those three starts were particularly great, though indeed one or two of those were pretty nice. Notice the company he kept in that third start? VH, Cribnote and Munnings? Those are all three quality sprinters, and DP wanted NOTHING to do with that field. Yeah, he did have some trouble, but he was pretty close early and got outrun pretty badly late.

Next up, he makes an early 3yo debut in the desert and wins going 7f, by 1/2 a length over Regal Ransom.

Three weeks later, he makes his next start going 1m, in what is very obviously his best performance. Again facing their apparent star router from the group, Regal Ransom, DP wins by nearly five.

Six weeks later, in what is clearly his second best performance, he goes 9 in their big 3yo race, and loses by about half a length to Regal Ransom. 15 lengths back to third.

Up to this point, it could not be any clearer that this is not a 6f horse.

The wheels fall off in the Derby, but if I recall correctly, he did suffer an injury and was not seen again until this year. He won some crappy 6f race where he overmatched his field, then ran up the track going a mile. He trailed, or close to it, throughout the entire race, which signifies to me that the distance had nothing to do with it. He just didn't run that day, or had something go amiss (besides having bad connections).

The Philly race? Who cares. That field was ugly.

Next you have his breeding. Sired by a World Cup winner that also sired the greatest staying mare in history, I see little indication in his sires side that would make me think he's a sprinter.

His damsire won the Preakness and the Belmont. Granted, the females in his family were awful, but that would indicate more of a soundness difficulty than a distance problem.

It seems pretty obvious to me, also, when you watch him run, that he's not a sprinter.