Goldlikova vs Zenyatta

[Thunder Gulch]

In case anyone missed it or still doesn't understand...boil it down to the facts

http://drf.com/news/goldikova-rules-world

"In her four Group 1 victories in Europe and her Grade 1 Breeders’ Cup Mile triumph, Goldikova was beating 16 winners of 37 Group or Grade 1 races. The overall Group/Grade 1 record of her competition in those five races is 157-37-25-19."

"In her five Grade 1 victories this year, Zenyatta was beating not a single Grade 1 winner. The overall Group/Grade 1 record of her competition in those five races is 28-0-1-2. Moreover, Zenyatta beat just two Grade 2 winners in those five races, St Trinians in the Vanity Handicap and Switch in the Lady's Secret."

[randallscott35]

Who cares about facts? Did you not see Zenyatta's dance?

[PeteMugg]

I'll start by saying that I'm in the camp that doesn't think Zenyatta is worthy of HOTY. However, the article cleverly omits the graded credentials of the horses she put a whoopin on in the classic.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

I'll start by saying that I'm in the camp that doesn't think Zenyatta is worthy of HOTY. However, the article cleverly omits the graded credentials of the horses she put a whoopin on in the classic.

The thing is that no one is discounting her effort in the classic. The point is that the rest of her campaign is so soft, unlike the other mares.

[Smooth Operator]

One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…

So Usain Bolt is an inferior athlete to a bunch of skinny guys from Kenya who run marathons?

Greatness is greatness. Goldikova is obviously great.

Being an almost great classic distance runner isnt anything to be ashamed of.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…

what was the top flight classic distance race that Zenyatta won this year?

Also, which of the two horses mentioned actually won a BC race this year?

Sorry Toll Booth fans ... just the way it is...

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…

I've had enough. Your ignorance, or trolling, has worn out my patience.

[PeteMugg]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The thing is that no one is discounting her effort in the classic. The point is that the rest of her campaign is so soft, unlike the other mares.

Chuck, I realize this. I'm just pointing out the fact that stats can be misleading or stacked a certain way. The article is trying to point out a very large difference in the graded credentials that G and Z have defeated this year. I know Z didn't win the classic, but she did shame a lot of horses with a long list of graded achievements.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Chuck, I realize this. I'm just pointing out the fact that stats can be misleading or stacked a certain way. The article is trying to point out a very large difference in the graded credentials that G and Z have defeated this year. I know Z didn't win the classic, but she did shame a lot of horses with a long list of graded achievements.

She may have finished in front of them in one race but surely you dont think that the stats used here are misleading? Zenyatta's 2010 accomplishments outside of the BC are hardly even noteworthy.

And finishing in front of horses who obviously went amiss like QR is not exactly a major accomplishment. Yeah the BC race was full of accomplished runners she finished ahead of (though many had questionable credentials of their own) but that doesnt excuse the rest of the year.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

I'll start by saying that I'm in the camp that doesn't think Zenyatta is worthy of HOTY. However, the article cleverly omits the graded credentials of the horses she put a whoopin on in the classic.

You mean, like Blame?

[PeteMugg]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

You mean, like Blame?

Hey, IC, I'm right there with you on Blame. I'm not even gonna pretend that Z gets by B with one more jump or two. Blame was better this day. Actually if the Z camp wanted, this could have been the last in a series of Z vs B.
I just think the stats are stacked G's way for the purpose ofthis article.

Chuck, these starts aren't about whether the competition was at it's best. It's about what they've done in graded events. You're correct, G has had more competitive races than Z. It shouldn't need misleading stats to just say so.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Chuck, these starts aren't about whether the competition was at it's best. It's about what they've done in graded events. You're correct, G has had more competitive races than Z. It shouldn't need misleading stats to just say so.

But you do and they are hardly misleading. How many times have we heard that she won 14 grade 1 races when her credentials are questioned? I think what the writer is saying is that the quality of the graded race that one mare raced in far outweighs the quality of similarly graded events the other mare competed in. Just adding one strong race into a 20 race sample doesnt really make the argement presented misleading does it?