Brother Derek is a fraud...

..never liked this horse or his hype...he has never beat any good horses....Baffert loved Bob and John today but he hung like a rat...Cindago living up to his early reputation as being a nice horse....

[pdrift1]

not a fraud, just wasnt right today and maybe the tc did him in, jury still out, looked tired. this horse ran his ass off in the tc races and had the worst trips of any horse in both and still came in with respectable finishes

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

..never liked this horse or his hype...he has never beat any good horses....Baffert loved Bob and John today but he hung like a rat...Cindago living up to his early reputation as being a nice horse....

Any horse that wins 2 grade 1 and 3 grade2 races is not a fraud. He may not compete at that level as a older horse, but one thing is for sure he wasn't ready to run today and I hope he comes back in the Goodwood.

[Danzig]

keep in mind that this is the same guy that called danzig a disappointment at stud....

Originally Posted by Danzig188

keep in mind that this is the same guy that called danzig a disappointment at stud....

No, I didn't...you still clearly cannot read...I called Danzig a disappointment as a SIRE OF SIRES, which is TOTALLY different....Go abck and read it again..if you can't, call me and I'll read it to you like I would read it to Dexter Manley.....

[Danzig]

oh, nice, seeing as how dexter was fighting for his life not long ago because of a tumor.

nice low blow there cunningham, altho mine was partly in jest. apparently you've been hanging around betsy, tending toward the hysterical....

[paisjpq]

I never liked Brother derek but i wouldn't calll him a fraud--as pointed out earlier he got two terrible trips in triple crown races and it wasn't his fault that he only got 4 horse fields out there in the early spring.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

oh, nice, seeing as how dexter was fighting for his life not long ago because of a tumor.

nice low blow there cunningham, altho mine was partly in jest. apparently you've been hanging around betsy, tending toward the hysterical....

Spent the week in Savannah, doesn't look like I missed much, I was glad Bernarnini won, but I am also glad I missed the "slobbing on the knob" that he probably received...

[2Hot4TV]

Bob and John was walking like a sore horse before the race and with all the turf works he is a sore horse. Calling him a rat made me LOL. The one that is a rat is DeStoops, he looks like a world class sprinter one day and folds like a suit made in Miami another day.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

..never liked this horse or his hype...he has never beat any good horses....Baffert loved Bob and John today but he hung like a rat...Cindago living up to his early reputation as being a nice horse....

" Brother Derek is a fraud... "

that's kind of the way I feel about you on ATRAB

[ArlJim78]

I have to call into the question the whole notion of a horse being a fraud.
How exactly does that work?

[dr. fager]

the good thing is now if he continues racing....strub series. If he would have won today he would have been outmatched in the BC......great thing for his 4 year old season

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I have to call into the question the whole notion of a horse being a fraud.
How exactly does that work?

Why, ArlJim. Don't you know? A horse is a fraud when it loses. If Bernardini loses next time out, he will be a fraud who will have been exposed by running against older horses. If Lava Man loses next time out, he will be a fraud who will have been exposed by running against another good horse, The Tin Man. If Invasor loses next time out, he will be exposed as a fraud because he never before faced tough competition.

You get the picture.

--Dunbar

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Why, ArlJim. Don't you know? A horse is a fraud when it loses. If Bernardini loses next time out, he will be a fraud who will have been exposed by running against older horses. If Lava Man loses next time out, he will be a fraud who will have been exposed by running against another good horse, The Tin Man. If Invasor loses next time out, he will be exposed as a fraud because he never before faced tough competition.

You get the picture.

--Dunbar

Hes a fraud huh? Well then so is the author of this thread.
Especially since the author claims to be active in thoroughbred ownership and breeding.
Horses go through form cycles, and don't remain at the same level of talent throughout a year or a career. To insult a grade one winner as fraud is just ridiculous, especially when coming off a layoff.
Lemme ask you a couple of questions Joel if I might. Hope you will respond.
1) Since you obviously were of the strong opinion that this horse was a fraud, at 2-5 today, how much money did you make betting he race? certainly you must have made a bundle.
2) As a breeder of LA breds, I would think that you would appreciate a "lowly" cal bred winning grade one races and accomplishing as much as Bro derek has. Hes yet more proof that those who enter the business in a humble way can succeed.
So i guess my question is, what chance do you think that there is that you will breed or race a grade one winner in your ownership/breeder career?
My guess will be about 1 in 6000. Thats about the ratio of grade winners born in every crop(very rough guess). If you should ever breed or own a grade one winner, I will fly down there and shine your shoes for you. But lets just say I'm not gonna go out and buy any polish.
You really should know better Joel.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Hes a fraud huh? Well then so is the author of this thread.
Especially since the author claims to be active in thoroughbred ownership and breeding.
Horses go through form cycles, and don't remain at the same level of talent throughout a year or a career. To insult a grade one winner as fraud is just ridiculous, especially when coming off a layoff.
Lemme ask you a couple of questions Joel if I might. Hope you will respond.
1) Since you obviously were of the strong opinion that this horse was a fraud, at 2-5 today, how much money did you make betting he race? certainly you must have made a bundle.
2) As a breeder of LA breds, I would think that you would appreciate a "lowly" cal bred winning grade one races and accomplishing as much as Bro derek has. Hes yet more proof that those who enter the business in a humble way can succeed.
So i guess my question is, what chance do you think that there is that you will breed or race a grade one winner in your ownership/breeder career?
My guess will be about 1 in 6000. Thats about the ratio of grade winners born in every crop(very rough guess). If you should ever breed or own a grade one winner, I will fly down there and shine your shoes for you. But lets just say I'm not gonna go out and buy any polish.
You really should know better Joel.

.........hey, i caught that 4/2 exacta ...... bout the only race i hit at that horrible del mar.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Why, ArlJim. Don't you know? A horse is a fraud when it loses. If Bernardini loses next time out, he will be a fraud who will have been exposed by running against older horses. If Lava Man loses next time out, he will be a fraud who will have been exposed by running against another good horse, The Tin Man. If Invasor loses next time out, he will be exposed as a fraud because he never before faced tough competition.

You get the picture.

--Dunbar

I think you're on to something, but if Bernardini happens to lose his next race, i would be willing to make a huge wager that Joel will NOT start a thread titled "Bernardini - Nothing but a Fraud".

[Cannon Shell]

I think that Brother Derek should be classified as "one dimensional" as opposed to a "fraud". He needs the lead to be genuinely effective.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I think you're on to something, but if Bernardini happens to lose his next race, i would be willing to make a huge wager that Joel will NOT start a thread titled "Bernardini - Nothing but a Fraud".

Nope, because he isn't a fraud...its that simple...some horses have the substance and some don't.....Bernardini definately is a champion.....Brother Derek is a Benchmark Cal-bred that had a good ride and was treated like a champion when all the while he was winning very average races all spring....

Big difference here...Brother Derek could not warm up Bernardini and I knew that back in May...you can tell the goods and the 'frauds' when you see them....

If you want, I'll call some more 'overrated' horses (more politically correct i suppose than fraud):

1) Bordonaro when he faces the best sprinters
2) Lava Man when he runs outside of the West Coast
3) Fleet Indian when she faces any pace pressure at all
4) All American turf horses when they face the good Euros in the BC, especially The Tin Man
5) The entire handicap division when they face the best 3-year-olds (like Bernardini, Discreet Cat, etc.)
6) All of the 3-year-old fillies are horrible IMO and it will show when they face older mares in the Distaff
7) EZ Warrior and Principal Secret when they face real 2-year-olds form the East coast
8) Jazil when he faces the best of his generation (just like I thought of Steppenwolfer all year when I saw him lose an entry-level allowance race at LaDowns to a La-bred this past winter...plodders)
9) Aragorn and Miesque's Approval when they faces Euros in the BC Mile


...want more?

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I have to call into the question the whole notion of a horse being a fraud.
How exactly does that work?

Fraud is a relative term....I knew he was never as good as his hype earlier this year and it has shown in his last three starts....all I heard from the West coast was "he's the best 3-year-old out here since Sunday Silance" from the clockers - and I knew better...he never beat anyone earlier this year out there and I even told my man JJ, who was his rep, that I thought he was way overrated...and he showed once again that he is NOT one of the best of his generation like everybody wanted to lable him earlier this year...

I'd love to own him...no question about it....fraud may have been a harsh term but I meant it relatively - some of you should have understood that I ive turthful opinions...not trying to undermine the horse...I doubt he has feelings anyway

Kind of like Wonder Lady Anne L...she is a fraud...a Dutrow special that probably isn't of the caliber of 99% of the Grade 1 winners in the world, but she won one and that can't be taken from her....it is all relative...

Originally Posted by dr.fager

" Brother Derek is a fraud... "

that's kind of the way I feel about you on ATRAB

The don't listen