Updating the Guerrero Numbers

[PatCummings]

Just thought I'd update the numbers from Juan Carlos Guerrero training at Philly...

Last two years - overall wins...208 for 558 (38%)
Last two years - in the money...388 for 558 (70%)

Last two years - first after claimed by... 40 for 75 (53%)
Last two years - second after claimed by...37 for 70 (53%)
Last two years - winner last out...76 for 179 (42%)
Last two years - 50% claiming tag jump...19 for 34 (56%)
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Last two years - first after claimed from...3 for 43 (7%)

[declansharbor]

This brings up an interesting point - who in their right mind claims from this guy? I'd be super-reluctant, even if the horse vets clean.

[outofthebox]

Any numbers outside Philly Park?

[Linny]

You really can't vet a claim so you have no way to know if a horse you might claim is "clean." Can't see why anyone would take a horse from him other than that at some point he'll end up with all of them if someone doesn't.

[Duvalier]

The guy's making a mockery out of racing...and laughing all the way to the bank while doing it.

[PatCummings]

Looking back at some of the claims, I've noticed Kate Demasi has taken quite a few. I don't think it's crazy to guess she may be trying to figure out the puzzle.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

The guy's making a mockery out of racing...and laughing all the way to the bank while doing it.

Exactly, he will get busted for steroids and mexican pig fat mircle gro in a year or two and will be banned and still have tons of loot in the bank.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

Any numbers outside Philly Park?

He rarely runs outside of Philly though he does have 20 or so at Delaware.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Last two years - first after claimed from...3 for 43 (7%)

The real problem with this number is that it clearly deters people from claiming his horses, which allows him to drop his horses in spots where they lay over fields without fear of being claimed, which creates more wins and paychecks for him and his owners. Vicious cycle which hurts both the claiming game and the bettors.

Unfortunately, until technology catches up to what he is doing and he has not moved one or more steps ahead, there is not much anyone can do about it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pointman

The real problem with this number is that it clearly deters people from claiming his horses, which allows him to drop his horses in spots where they lay over fields without fear of being claimed, which creates more wins and paychecks for him and his owners. Vicious cycle which hurts both the claiming game and the bettors.

Unfortunately, until technology catches up to what he is doing and he has not moved one or more steps ahead, there is not much anyone can do about it.

Actually there are a lot of things that can be done but noone has the heart to do it. You are right about how it screws things up. I know a few guys who scratch if he draws in against them, probably going to join them. Why waste races?

[Heels1989]

Current Del park numbers

40 Juan Carlos Guerrero 7 1 2 1 $19,825 14% 4 57%

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually there are a lot of things that can be done but noone has the heart to do it. You are right about how it screws things up. I know a few guys who scratch if he draws in against them, probably going to join them. Why waste races?

He is in 70% of the races good luck ducking him

Originally Posted by pointman

The real problem with this number is that it clearly deters people from claiming his horses, which allows him to drop his horses in spots where they lay over fields without fear of being claimed, which creates more wins and paychecks for him and his owners. Vicious cycle which hurts both the claiming game and the bettors.

Unfortunately, until technology catches up to what he is doing and he has not moved one or more steps ahead, there is not much anyone can do about it.

Technology catching up to him? You are giving this guy way too much credit.
I highly doubt this guy is so much a genius when it comes to doping horses that no one can figure out what he is doing. The fools are the bettors and the idiots are the ones that allow it to happen.

He gets caught...big deal. He gets to go on vacation and lets his trusty assistant take over and collect the checks. Its a win-win for any of these creeps. If anything, no one considers the health implications of the horses. Why dont we have PETA go after these trainers who do this. It seems like it would be a logical argument on thier side rather than PETA having stupid arguments about whipping horses, or "forcing" horses to run against thier will.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Technology catching up to him? You are giving this guy way too much credit.
I highly doubt this guy is so much a genius when it comes to doping horses that no one can figure out what he is doing. The fools are the bettors and the idiots are the ones that allow it to happen.

He gets caught...big deal. He gets to go on vacation and lets his trusty assistant take over and collect the checks. Its a win-win for any of these creeps. If anything, no one considers the health implications of the horses. Why dont we have PETA go after these trainers who do this. It seems like it would be a logical argument on thier side rather than PETA having stupid arguments about whipping horses, or "forcing" horses to run against thier will.

Just so I'm clear...bettors are fools and we need PETA to crack down on trainers?

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Just so I'm clear...bettors are fools and we need PETA to crack down on trainers?

IF PETA wants to bicker about horse racing, then those trainers that dope horses and consequently harm the health of horses is a legitimate argument. Thier current platform argument is about the whipping horses and "forcing" horses to run is a stupid and baseless argument.

Bettors are fools because the industry see us that way when they turn the other cheek and allow these trainers to do what they do. Get caught and its a weeks vacation minus a 1000 bucks.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

IF PETA wants to bicker about horse racing, then those trainers that dope horses and consequently harm the health of horses is a legitimate argument. Thier current platform argument is about the whipping horses and "forcing" horses to run is a stupid and baseless argument.

Bettors are fools because the industry see us that way when they turn the other cheek and allow these trainers to do what they do. Get caught and its a weeks vacation minus a 1000 bucks.

Don't listen to them helicopter. They are just bitter. I think using PETA to police the sport is a great idea. How about a joint venture between PETA and the NAACP?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

IF PETA wants to bicker about horse racing, then those trainers that dope horses and consequently harm the health of horses is a legitimate argument. Thier current platform argument is about the whipping horses and "forcing" horses to run is a stupid and baseless argument.

Bettors are fools because the industry see us that way when they turn the other cheek and allow these trainers to do what they do. Get caught and its a weeks vacation minus a 1000 bucks.

You get no arguement from me about PETA's current arguements. But the last thing the sport needs is any more involvement from them in any capacity.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

IF PETA wants to bicker about horse racing, then those trainers that dope horses and consequently harm the health of horses is a legitimate argument. Thier current platform argument is about the whipping horses and "forcing" horses to run is a stupid and baseless argument.

Bettors are fools because the industry see us that way when they turn the other cheek and allow these trainers to do what they do. Get caught and its a weeks vacation minus a 1000 bucks.

Why do people assume that what is given to horses "harms" them? Assuming he is using a steroid (I would guess this is about 99.8% chance of this) the drug is probably helping the horses rather than harming them.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Technology catching up to him? You are giving this guy way too much credit.
I highly doubt this guy is so much a genius when it comes to doping horses that no one can figure out what he is doing. The fools are the bettors and the idiots are the ones that allow it to happen.

He gets caught...big deal. He gets to go on vacation and lets his trusty assistant take over and collect the checks. Its a win-win for any of these creeps. If anything, no one considers the health implications of the horses. Why dont we have PETA go after these trainers who do this. It seems like it would be a logical argument on thier side rather than PETA having stupid arguments about whipping horses, or "forcing" horses to run against thier will.

Let me try to understand the point that you are trying to make here as it is difficult for those of us with even a modicum of intelligence to make sense of this dribble.

You believe that he is an idiot who can barely muster up the brainstorm to dope his horses with commonly detectable substances, yet the authorities are even dumber than him and unable to detect such common substances? This somehow makes those of us who are bettors even stupider?

Forget the Feds, the local district attorney's offices, the state wagering boards since they don't care about the health of the horses, horse racing needs an organization whose only agenda regarding horse racing is to ban the sport as it is cruel to animals, to police the dirty trainers? Finally, putting PETA on such a focus will make them drop the current false allegations they toss at the sport and come in and help clean up the sport?

I think I understand the allure of poker after reading this nonsense, at least the bettor gets to size up the intelligence of who he is risking his money against, we stupid bettors only get to see a tote board without knowing who is putting money into certain horses. I can't wait to see your next 30 posts!

Originally Posted by pointman

Let me try to understand the point that you are trying to make here as it is difficult for those of us with even a modicum of intelligence to make sense of this dribble.

You believe that he is an idiot who can barely muster up the brainstorm to dope his horses with commonly detectable substances, yet the authorities are even dumber than him and unable to detect such common substances? This somehow makes those of us who are bettors even stupider?

Forget the Feds, the local district attorney's offices, the state wagering boards since they don't care about the health of the horses, horse racing needs an organization whose only agenda regarding horse racing is to ban the sport as it is cruel to animals, to police the dirty trainers? Finally, putting PETA on such a focus will make them drop the current false allegations they toss at the sport and come in and help clean up the sport?

I think I understand the allure of poker after reading this nonsense, at least the bettor gets to size up the intelligence of who he is risking his money against, we stupid bettors only get to see a tote board without knowing who is putting money into certain horses. I can't wait to see your next 30 posts!

You put me to sleep on this reply. Wake me up when the "technology" is invented to catch this genius.