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#1
09-10-2006, 02:42 PM
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Who thinks...
that the U.S. government has too much power over its citizens as of right now? Who is willing to give up all of their freedoms for national security? Why are we in Iraq?
Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 09-10-2006 at 02:58 PM. 
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#2
09-10-2006, 02:45 PM
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Did you just get back from an SDS rally? Two mutually exclusive questions!
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#3
09-10-2006, 02:57 PM
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#4
09-10-2006, 03:16 PM
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Sorry Kiddo: didn't mean to bark at you. SDS(Student for a Democratic Society) was '60's leftist group supported by the communist party. What rights of Americans are being abbrogated now,really? Nobody wants their rights denied in America. What, other than the Iraq question, has you bothered?
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#5
09-10-2006, 03:51 PM
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http://web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-eng http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchas...s-to-close.php There are two Americans there. There families did not know where they were for three years. They had no right to a trial or a lawyer. I see something wrong with this...(i.e. U.S. Constitution). If you read the articles, a lot of "detainees" are released and are not charged. That means that the government could come into our homes, and take any one of us away when they please. That is for starters. There are lots more reasons.
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#6
09-10-2006, 04:05 PM
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i'm sorry, but i don't see why i should be worried about being taken out of my home for no reason, since A: i'm not a terrorist or suspected terrorist, B: i'm not in afghanistan or iraq fighting againt the u.s. and C: i'm a law abiding u.s. citizen. i seriously doubt that those who are in gitmo or elsewhere can say any of those things.
i do believe that we should be following the geneva convention regarding foreign combatants. i don't believe those combatants have any rights under the u.s. constitution.
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#7
09-10-2006, 04:09 PM
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KRIM: I read the articles....and to tell the truth, I was troubled by the secret prison revalation! But, in reality, laws are meant for the lawbreaker, and in War, especially a clandestine war...the security of our once safe country comes first! These are scary times, but I'm not worried too much about the Govt. BTW...Danzig...thanks for your imput.
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#8
09-10-2006, 03:13 PM
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i'm not we have to finish what we started
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#9
09-10-2006, 05:51 PM
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I was thinking of staying out of this discourse, as it's futile to talk truth to those that believe all the propaganda that they've eaten. Unfortunately, the US government has indeed taken too much power from its citizens. The tactic is "fear". We all, patriotic Americans, really want to do our best to maintain a safe environment for our families and ourselves. So, we take off our shoes at the security check prior to the boarding gate, discard our shampoo and deoderant. Have we given up freedoms? The Patriot Act includes provisions for reporting which books you've checked out from your library. Your overseas phone calls are probably monitored, as are your private financial dealings. Has that helped national security? Well, like Danzig, I have nothing to hide. However, independent contractors operating in Iraq seem to have kept their dealings well hidden from the American taxpayers. If anyone knows of the current cost over runs concerning Halliburton (the company that vp Cheney was CEO of prior to his current tenure), please provide the link. Why are we in Iraq? It was our present administration's war of choice. It is overwhelmingly opposed by the majority of Americans as of now. There is no exit strategy as the death toll mounts and civil war ensues. We are losing in Iraq, as we are in Afghanistan. Now there is talk of a pre-emptive air strike against Iran to take out their nuclear program. Seems that the "uniter" has lead this once great country down the same path that others did during the Vietnam era. Unfortunately, we are a divided nation...and we are losing two wars despite the sacrifice of so many. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0909-01.htm
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#10
09-10-2006, 05:56 PM
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Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 09-10-2006 at 06:15 PM.
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#11
09-10-2006, 06:26 PM
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Now that's a very tough question, "How do you stand up to a bully who is stronger and more powerful than you?" Seems to me that prior to the American Revolution, a similar question was asked by Thomas Paine. Though I don't advocate revolution against our present government, many Americans now see the fallacy of the "stay the course" mentality. I sure hope "common sense" becomes reality. Present policy is insanity. If it demands courage to say so, count me with the 63% of Americans that agree (according to the latest poll I saw). Deception and lies will never win against the truth. Never have in the past, and never will in the future. It's not futile to say so.
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#12
09-10-2006, 07:05 PM
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I think someone needs to inform you about what is going in. You obviously don't get it. Maybe we'll have to have another 9/11 for you to get it. Our government is doing the best job they can in a very difficult time. There is no way that our governmnet could protect us with the laws that were in place before 9/11. There is simply no way. Luckily for us, pretty much everyone in Congress on both sides of the aisle understand this. That is why they passed the Patriot Act. I'm not saying that the Patriot Act is perfect. It may not be perfect but we definitely needed some type of thing passed like the Patriot Act. Every person in Congress in both parties knows this. People in both parties are concerned about civil liberties. You always have to weigh the pros and cons of any type of legislation. Nobody likes to have their privacy invaded, but sometimes there is no other choice. Let's look at something as simple as going to the airport. I don't like going through a metal detector. I don't like being searched and having my bags checked. Nobody likes it but everyone recognizes that it is absolutely necessary. It has to be done. It would be too dangerous for them not to do it. It's that simple. I think Iraq is a totally separate debate. A good case can be made that we did not need to go into Iraq. By the way, I'm not mad at you. I have debates with friends all the time and there are never any hard feelings. Anyway, I strongly disagree with your contention that our government is doing any of these things with anything other than the best intentions in mind. In addition, I think that most of the things they've done are absolutely necessary. I'd like you to name a single case of someone who was arrested that the government did not have good reason to detain.
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#13
09-10-2006, 07:09 PM
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 YEAH...what Rupert said!!
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#14
09-11-2006, 07:14 AM
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Too much power? No
But! (As I'm about 2 open so many cans of worms it's gonna suck)... The Iraq situation is like the war on drugs or Vietnam... It's a war we can't win. You can't control a bunch of people that don't wanna be controlled. There are some people that are willing to go along with our brand of democracy, but there are too many terrorists, extremists, etc that will make it impossible for things to ever stabilize there. It's time to cut our losses and leave. It sucks that it's gotta come to that. I was in support of "Dubya" at the beginning. But it's just not gonna work. Let them be a country in anarachy. Let them be another Afghanastan. Some Oil Warlord will come out of the woodwork eventually and then the U.S. can deal with whoever that will be.
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#15
09-11-2006, 01:46 PM
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As I sit at my keyboard ... and poke out this message ... at 1:45pm on September 11, 2006 ...
... I can say ... with absolute certainty ... ... that in the entire history of the human race ... there has never been a more free or more prosperous society than the United States of America is right now ... and all of us who are alive ... here and now ... are the most blessed people who have ever lived. Therefore ... fully knowing this ... I am more than content to ignore the hysterical rantings of the loony leftists out there ... who neither understand nor appreciate how utterly fortunate they are.
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#16
09-10-2006, 07:18 PM
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http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0910-24.htm
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#17
09-10-2006, 07:30 PM
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What did that article prove? Is that supposed to be some indictment against the current administration? It doesn't matter who the President is and it doesn't matter what party he is in. It will have no effect on the treatment you will receive if you try to go to the capitol and disrupt a congressional session. Unless you are invited to speak, you cannot speak. You can't go into a cogressional session and start yelling your views. You will be arrested. I assume you know that so I don't understand why you would post that article.
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#18
09-11-2006, 09:09 AM
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Rupert: You say you want to inform people of what is REALLY going in. What is Really going on? I guess you need to inform me. I must be one of the ignorant ones.
I think someone needs to inform you about what is going in. You obviously don't get it. Maybe we'll have to have another 9/11 for you to get it. Although 9/11 was extremely horrible, it could have been a lot worse. If those people REALLY hated us, they would have flown the planes into our nuclear power plants. They hate our power and our financial wealth, which in their religion, are symbols of evil. That is why they attacked our monuments instead of the nuclear power plants. Our government is doing the best job they can in a very difficult time. There is no way that our governmnet could protect us with the laws that were in place before 9/11. We still aren't safe Rupert. We will never be safe. Congress hasn't even really addressed our biggest threat. Our biggest threat by outside countries is terrorists coming through the Mexican/U.S. border. Do you know just how easy it would be for them to do that? However, America's biggest threat is herself. I mean, look at how divided the country is right now. I love this country, and think that it is the best country in the world. I will fight for the American people, for you and everyone, but not for the ones in office who I believe have a hidden agenda in Iraq which involves money and power. I will stand in the face of the bully alone with only words and the best of intenetions if I have to. I will die for this cause because I believe in what is right. What is going on at Guantanamo Bay is not right. The power that those in office and law enforcement possess in this country is not right. The people have too little say. We are allowing them to take away our freedoms. Now, it doesn't seem like they have taken so many away, but I fear that it is only going to get worse in the name of "safety". This country is going downhill and fast. Genuine Risk and DTS know of what I talk about. The cases that they and myself pointed out are hardly the only ones. Lots more have occurred like them. You just have to look for them. For instance: In the New York Times on August 17, 2006, Bob Herbert wrote an article called The Tyranny of Fear. It might put a different perspective on the situation. I'd like you to name a single case of someone who was arrested that the government did not have good reason to detain. It's not the fact that they don't have a good reason to detain these people Rupert. It's the fact that they don't have any Constitutional rights, are threatened, and tortured. The fact that the people who have served in the U.S. military are starting to speak out against the U.S. government should say something. Just as you, I mean everything that I said in the utmost respect. Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 09-11-2006 at 09:18 AM.
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#19
09-11-2006, 11:00 AM
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http://www.abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1629283
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#20
09-10-2006, 09:56 PM
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I dont think our government has too much power over us as a people, granted it hasnt done a great job. We will never have to give our freedoms for national security, it may seem that way for some people. We are in Iraq to give them a free democratic society without fear.
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