ATR Hall of Fame Debate: Gio Ponti?

[Kasept]

Mentioned in handicapping comments last week about Gio Ponti and a Hall of Fame resume.. Prompted some conversation here and on radio.

Yeah? Nay? Pros.. Cons..

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Mentioned in handicapping comments last week about Gio Ponti and a Hall of Fame resume.. Prompted some conversation here and on radio.

Yeah? Nay? Pros.. Cons..

**** **

[Port Conway Lane]

Pro- During his five year career he has run competitively in more G1 races than any horse of that era.
Con-At best he stands in line behind Curlin and the three (maybe four) filly/mares in that same time frame.

It seems a little silly to hinge a career on one final race, and if it is that borderline maybe others deserve more consideration but wait and see if he can end it on a high note.

[freddymo]

In this day and age..He is a first ballot HoF'er.. The good news nobody cares about grass champions in the US so we got to see him race. The bad news an ordinary G1 horse is a no doubt about it HoF'er

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by freddymo

In this day and age..He is a first ballot HoF'er.. The good news nobody cares about grass champions in the US so we got to see him race. The bad news an ordinary G1 horse is a no doubt about it HoF'er

[Calzone Lord]

Manila -- in the opinion of more than a few highly respected handicappers -- was as good an American turf horse as they've said they've seen.

It took Manila 21 years after retiring to get elected into the Hall of Fame. The 16th time was the charm.

Manila was a perfect 5-for-5 in his career against Grade 1 company. He never finished worse than 2nd in 14 career tries on turf.

He won 3 different Grade 1's as a 3-year-old facing older horses - including a Breeders Cup turf victory in unquestionably the most impressive BC Turf field ever assembled.

* Theatrical was 2nd.

* Estrapade (off of a 5-length win in the 14-runner Gr 1 Arlington Million and a 2 length win over Theatrical in the 12-runner Gr 1 Oak Tree Invitational in her last two starts) was a soundly beaten 3rd.

* Dancing Brave (European Horse of the Year and still today considered one of the greatest and most popular turf horses in European history) was 4th.

Manila won his 2nd UN as a 4-year-old under handicap conditions. He also drubbed Theatrical in the Arlington Million. Theatrical had brought a 4-race win streak (3 Grade 1's and a Grade 2) into the Million and subsquently never was beaten again. After the Million defeat -- he took the Gr 1 Turf Classic, Gr 1 Man O' War, and Grade 1 BC Turf over Arc winner Trempolino in his next three starts.

Gio Ponti needs to win a dirt Grade 1 or a Breeders Cup race or just wait for the 28th ballot.


People bitched about Point Given -- he was an absolute superstar. He dominated the glamour 3yo division in a very deep year and completed a unique Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers sweep all very impressively and with a bar shoe in the Travers.

[cmorioles]

No way in hell is Gio Ponti a Hall of Fame horse.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

No way in hell is Gio Ponti a Hall of Fame horse.

I'm a huge fan of Gio Ponti, and find many inclusions in the Hall of Fame questionable, but I can't imagine how Gio Ponti could be considered a Hall of Fame horse.

[paulo537]

7 G1 wins

14 G1 turf starts with 7 wins.

4 G1 turf starts at 1 Mile. 3 wins. One 2nd to Goldikova.

SW at ages 2,3,4,5,6.

GSW at ages 3,4,5,6

G1 winner at ages 4,5,6

What other horses have NOT made the HoF with 7 Grade 1 wins?

I'd vote yes.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by paulo537

7 G1 wins

14 G1 turf starts with 7 wins.

4 G1 turf starts at 1 Mile. 3 wins. One 2nd to Goldikova.

SW at ages 2,3,4,5,6.

GSW at ages 3,4,5,6

G1 winner at ages 4,5,6

What other horses have NOT made the HoF with 7 Grade 1 wins?

I'd vote yes.

Don't forget lost to Interpatation

[paulo537]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Don't forget lost to Interpatation

Ok.

We can't forget Karelian either.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Don't forget lost to Interpatation

Rachel Alexandra lost to Persistently. They all have limitations Fredo.

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by paulo537

7 G1 wins

14 G1 turf starts with 7 wins.

4 G1 turf starts at 1 Mile. 3 wins. One 2nd to Goldikova.

SW at ages 2,3,4,5,6.

GSW at ages 3,4,5,6

G1 winner at ages 4,5,6

What other horses have NOT made the HoF with 7 Grade 1 wins?

I'd vote yes.

Just curious 14 G1 turf starts withh 7 wins, How many times did he come in 2nd? Hall of Fame..ABSOLUTELY

[Cannon Shell]

Has Gio Ponti ever beaten a horse that won a year-end championship or has a remote chance of being considered a HoF horse?

I dont know anyone who would call him a great horse. Shouldn't that count for something? I still think it is hard to a specialist to campaign through their 6 year old year, never win a BC race and be considered HoF worthy. While it is commendable that he continued to run that long the HoF used to be about truly great horses.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

Con-At best he stands in line behind Curlin and the three (maybe four) filly/mares in that same time frame.

He's ahead of Ghostzapper in line?

[Calzone Lord]

Never mind -- you said same time frame -- give me an F in reading comp.

[Indian Charlie]

Manila is certainly top 3 turf horses I've seen in my lifetime (well, racing lifetime, since around 84).

I have no idea how it took so long to get him in the HOF. Well, I do, because people are generally idiots, but still.

As I said before, GP in the HOF? *&@% *#