Gaddafy dead

[Riot]

And it wasn't pretty at the end. Too bad for him. Good riddance.

Unbelievable the changes towards democracy we've seen in the middle east in the past couple of years. Nearly unthinkable.

[trackrat59]

Originally Posted by Riot

And it wasn't pretty at the end. Too bad for him. Good riddance.Unbelievable the changes towards democracy we've seen in the middle east in the past couple of years. Nearly unthinkable.

We agree on something.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by trackrat59

We agree on something.

Could it be Sons of Anarchy?



Spell it out ,Girly.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Riot

And it wasn't pretty at the end. Too bad for him. Good riddance.

Unbelievable the changes towards democracy we've seen in the middle east in the past couple of years. Nearly unthinkable.

???????

[Danzig]

is assad next?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

???????

I have no qualms over the tortured way this piece of trash died.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Riot

I have no qualms over the tortured way this piece of trash died.

OK, the quote led me to believe different.

[clyde]

Printh Charleth is next.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

OK, the quote led me to believe different.

"Oh, poor Ghaddafy, he was tortured and pistol-whipped"

"Too bad for him"

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

phuck him..

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Riot

"Oh, poor Ghaddafy, he was tortured and pistol-whipped"

"Too bad for him"

Sometimes you never know in here, there are a lot of bleeding hearts (even for scum like Ghaddafy), he deserved a trial, blah blah blah................

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Riot

I have no qualms over the tortured way this piece of trash died.

i'll be math's bleeding heart.

i don't think there's anything good about the way this played out. if american soldiers took a live war criminal into custody i'd expect them to deliver him to medical care before trial.

i understand that the libyan rebels are a disorganized militia. i probably don't understand at an emotional level what it's like to live under a murderous despot. i'm sure whoever put the bullet in his head thought he was doing it for a very good reason.

but what he executed along with ghadaffi was the rule of law. and any chance for libyan society to have an accounting for the last 42 years.

south africa had truth and reconciliation. libya had this.

i don't know how anyone thinks this is good for us in the long run.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i don't know how anyone thinks this is good for us in the long run.

I'll take a shot at that: We sent in Tomahawk cruise missles, and predator drones, no troops, to help a civil war, and a horrible dictator controlling one of the largest oil sources in the world and a good amount of Mediterranian coastline is gone.

That the Libyan people tore apart a leader who horribly and brutally tortured his own people for 40 years is their deal - rather than put him to trial and "have an accounting" - well, what exactly would you hope for, in that "accounting"? The "rule of law" was besmerched because they beat their murderous dictator to death? There was no rule of law - it was a dictatorship! I'm sure the people are quite happy at his death at the hands of the rebel troops, rather than have some "trial" (in a country where that system doesn't even exist)

Libya is wealthy in oil, and doesn't have tribal and religious factions tearing it apart, and the country is united in it's goal. It will be up and running as a democratic new country quickly. Probably do far better than Egypt.

We're done there.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'll take a shot at that: We sent in Tomahawk cruise missles, and predator drones, no troops, to help a civil war, and a horrible dictator controlling one of the largest oil sources in the world and a good amount of Mediterranian coastline is gone.

That the Libyan people tore apart a leader who horribly and brutally tortured his own people for 40 years is their deal - rather than put him to trial and "have an accounting" - well, what exactly would you hope for, in that "accounting"? The "rule of law" was besmerched because they beat their murderous dictator to death? There was no rule of law - it was a dictatorship! I'm sure the people are quite happy at his death at the hands of the rebel troops, rather than have some "trial" (in a country where that system doesn't even exist)

Libya is wealthy in oil, and doesn't have tribal and religious factions tearing it apart, and the country is united in it's goal. It will be up and running as a democratic new country quickly. Probably do far better than Egypt.

We're done there.

i guess where we differ is where we place our optimism. i think you're betting that the french revolution doesn't produce napoleon. hope i'm wrong and you're right.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'll take a shot at that: We sent in Tomahawk cruise missles, and predator drones, no troops, to help a civil war, and a horrible dictator controlling one of the largest oil sources in the world and a good amount of Mediterranian coastline is gone.

That the Libyan people tore apart a leader who horribly and brutally tortured his own people for 40 years is their deal - rather than put him to trial and "have an accounting" - well, what exactly would you hope for, in that "accounting"? The "rule of law" was besmerched because they beat their murderous dictator to death? There was no rule of law - it was a dictatorship! I'm sure the people are quite happy at his death at the hands of the rebel troops, rather than have some "trial" (in a country where that system doesn't even exist)

Libya is wealthy in oil, and doesn't have tribal and religious factions tearing it apart, and the country is united in it's goal. It will be up and running as a democratic new country quickly. Probably do far better than Egypt.

We're done there.

Yeah we are done there unless some other outside influence gains a foothold there and creates their own fiefdom. Think the Chinese or Russians wouldnt trade arms/technology to the next govt/leader for a big chunk of that oil? What if (gasp) a islamic govt works its way into power and uses that oil money to sponsor terrorism? Especially frightening considering the location.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i'll be math's bleeding heart.

i don't think there's anything good about the way this played out. if american soldiers took a live war criminal into custody i'd expect them to deliver him to medical care before trial.

i understand that the libyan rebels are a disorganized militia. i probably don't understand at an emotional level what it's like to live under a murderous despot. i'm sure whoever put the bullet in his head thought he was doing it for a very good reason.

but what he executed along with ghadaffi was the rule of law. and any chance for libyan society to have an accounting for the last 42 years.

south africa had truth and reconciliation. libya had this.

i don't know how anyone thinks this is good for us in the long run.

i don't know either. i sure don't miss hussein, but i still think it was a mistake for us to go there and do what we've done. and i think our actions will have repercussions that will affect us, and others, for years to come. if nato wanted to go so dammed bad, fine-but we shouldn't just move in lockstep just because nato said so.
having allies is all well and good. but not when we lose sight of our own best interests because of what an ally thinks is in his best interests. it's how we got involved in vietnam. surely we've repaid our debt to france by now for them helping us out vs george the third?!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't know either. i sure don't miss hussein, but i still think it was a mistake for us to go there and do what we've done. and i think our actions will have repercussions that will affect us, and others, for years to come. if nato wanted to go so dammed bad, fine-but we shouldn't just move in lockstep just because nato said so.
having allies is all well and good. but not when we lose sight of our own best interests because of what an ally thinks is in his best interests. it's how we got involved in vietnam. surely we've repaid our debt to france by now for them helping us out vs george the third?!

I agree, Iraq was a disaster, we had no business invading there, our government lied to us. But I can't equate Libya with what Bush did invading Iraq?

I agree, we need to stop trying to be the superpower of the world. But we don't need to refuse to help when situation is ripe, especially if it is with technology rather than troops. And having footholds in areas of the country that are ripe for nuclear proliferation doesn't hurt. It is no longer just two superpowers facing off regarding nuclear or biological threat.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't know either. i sure don't miss hussein, but i still think it was a mistake for us to go there and do what we've done. and i think our actions will have repercussions that will affect us, and others, for years to come. if nato wanted to go so dammed bad, fine-but we shouldn't just move in lockstep just because nato said so.
having allies is all well and good. but not when we lose sight of our own best interests because of what an ally thinks is in his best interests. it's how we got involved in vietnam. surely we've repaid our debt to france by now for them helping us out vs george the third?!

The US being part of the NATO force that assisted the rebels is really a moot point. It is really almost meaningless moving forward because it is unlikely that the assistance we provided be remembered for long. I don't think our involvement was a mistake per say but there is a great deal of uncertainity going forward. I dont believe the US was forced or coherced into this action. On the contrary I believe Obama wanted to be seen as a bit player here despite the vast majority of our money and tools being used under the guise of NATO. It was a pretty safe bet for him as virtually no country supported Qaddafi and his military/air force wasn't something to fear.