Extending the Payroll Tax Cut

[dellinger63]

Isn't this simply the equivalent of reducing your IRA/401K contribution, converting it into spending money and putting part of the payment for your healthcare policy on a credit card? And if we want to help small business why in the world are they excluded from the cut? Smoke and mirrors I wish. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for tax cuts but this is far from a tax cut and is just one more example of complete lack of fiscal responsibility. The solution to the deficit problem, nearing Greece in regards to GDP, isn't that difficult and certainly a payroll tax reduction, the equivalent of stealing from SS isn't the answer.

SS is in far more trouble than any politician is willing to admit. Using SS data from 1957-2010 http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4a3.html the following was noted and a bit ominous:

* Not once from year to year (in 53 years) have payroll contributions ever decreased until 2008-2009 ($4.86 billion) and 2009-2010 ($29.97 billion) the first time ever interest on the account decreased was also 2009-2010.

* Despite the decreased payroll contributions received from 2009-2010 benefits paid out increased by $26.12 billion. $60 billion 2008-2009. For a total of over $86 billion in 2 years. A 12% increase or 6% per year average. Also noting never once since the start of the chart have benefits paid out ever decreased. At the rate of a 6% increase each year benefits paid out in 5 years 2016 should total just under $942 billion up $240 billion from 2010.

With the housing market crash and unemployment rates at their peak I'd suspect the loss of many retirement portfolios have put more in the position that they will rely on SS for a good portion of life in retirement. Considering the whole thought process behind SS as being a security net because privately investing in the stock market is too risky doesn't seem to jive with reducing contributions to retirement and using the money for everyday spending.

The fact, the recently downgraded US Treasury, holds the entire operation in an IOU account while acting as a investment bank ie Goldman Sachs Lehman Bros would, making loans and investments in such stellar performers as Fannie and Freddie, Solyndra, GM perhaps the IMF, etc. etc should set off alarms everywhere. In other words as a portfolio manager they suck. Social Security being in a lockbox and this plan continuing is a complete joke/ripoff.

[Riot]

Last year, when the Republicans went to the mat defending the wealthy, and refused to allow the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthiest Americans only to expire, the trade-off bargained by the Dems agreeing to allow the Republicans richest Americans to keep their tax break on the highest of incomes, was to also temporarily initiate giving poor and middle class families a tiny tax break of their own, about $1000 a year more cash in their pockets, during the recession.

Oh. The Horror.

Now, the Republicans say the Dems can't continue that tiny tax break for the poor unless the Dems offset the cost. Which is really strange, because the Republicans have always directly and deliberately refused to offset the far greater cost of the massive 10-year-long Bush Tax Cuts For The Wealthy, which directly helped put our country trillions into deficit.

Occupy The Voting Booth. The choice is really clear.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Last year, when the Republicans went to the mat defending the wealthy, and refused to allow the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthiest Americans only to expire, the trade-off bargained by the Dems agreeing to allow the Republicans richest Americans to keep their tax break on the highest of incomes, was to also temporarily initiate giving poor and middle class families a tiny tax break of their own, about $1000 a year more cash in their pockets, during the recession.

Oh. The Horror.

Now, the Republicans say the Dems can't continue that tiny tax break for the poor unless the Dems offset the cost. Which is really strange, because the Republicans have always directly and deliberately refused to offset the far greater cost of the massive 10-year-long Bush Tax Cuts For The Wealthy, which directly helped put our country trillions into deficit.

Occupy The Voting Booth. The choice is really clear.

If the wealthy, say top 25% of wage earners weren't already paying 85% or the top half paying over 95% of all personal income taxes you may have point. Sadly they do pay that and thus you don't have a point. What should the top 1/4 pay, 90%-95-100% of the total tab?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

What should the top 1/4 pay, 90%-95-100% of the total tab?

Why did the top wealthiest 1% get this special tax cut in the first place? The wealthiest shouldn't have received a special tax cut. Especially one that directly pushed this country into a deficit. Don't you agree?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Why did the top wealthiest 1% get this special tax cut in the first place? The wealthiest shouldn't have received a special tax cut. Especially one that directly pushed this country into a deficit. Don't you agree?

to right a wrong and no I don't agree

You know because almost half of what the top quarter pays comes from the top 1% (36.7% of all personal income tax paid) and while collectively 1%ers Adjusted Gross Income represents 16.9% of all income they are paying 37% of all collected personal income taxes. Look, no one here including me will likely ever meet much more be one of the 1,379,000 people filing returns that make up the 1% yet it doesn't make it right to covet even more of their money. They're doing quite enough as is. IMO and deserve a big THANK YOU rather than a payment due notice

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

to right a wrong and no I don't agree

You know because almost half of what the top quarter pays comes from the top 1% (36.7% of all personal income tax paid) and while collectively 1%ers Adjusted Gross Income represents 16.9% of all income they are paying 37% of all collected personal income taxes. Look, no one here including me will likely ever meet much more be one of the 1,379,000 people filing returns that make up the 1% yet it doesn't make it right to covet even more of their money. They're doing quite enough as is. IMO and deserve a big THANK YOU rather than a payment due notice

Wow. Talk about being grateful for the crumbs from the lord's table.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

to right a wrong and no I don't agree

You know because almost half of what the top quarter pays comes from the top 1% (36.7% of all personal income tax paid) and while collectively 1%ers Adjusted Gross Income represents 16.9% of all income they are paying 37% of all collected personal income taxes. Look, no one here including me will likely ever meet much more be one of the 1,379,000 people filing returns that make up the 1% yet it doesn't make it right to covet even more of their money. They're doing quite enough as is. IMO and deserve a big THANK YOU rather than a payment due notice

The following chart is from 2006 (it's worse now). Please tell me how much money one has to earn to be in the bottom 90-95% of American wage earners.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

to right a wrong and no I don't agree

Okay - so you are in favor of that special unfinanced tax cut to the wealthiest of Americans, that pushed this country into trillions of deficit. And you are defending that.

But you are against continuing a much smaller temporary tax cut for everyone else who is not wealthy (middle class and poverty level). And you want the middle class and poverty level to pay more taxes.

But you say you are a libertarian.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

to right a wrong and no I don't agree

You know because almost half of what the top quarter pays comes from the top 1% (36.7% of all personal income tax paid) and while collectively 1%ers Adjusted Gross Income represents 16.9% of all income they are paying 37% of all collected personal income taxes. Look, no one here including me will likely ever meet much more be one of the 1,379,000 people filing returns that make up the 1% yet it doesn't make it right to covet even more of their money. They're doing quite enough as is. IMO and deserve a big THANK YOU rather than a payment due notice

the top 1% controls about 42% of the money, perhaps they should pay 42% of the taxes as well. they can certainly afford it!
that's not coveting, i'm certainly not going to get a penny of it.