John Shirreffs

[Calzone Lord]

Nice to see him win a MSW race with a 2nd-time starter that paid $95.40 at Del Mar.

Mike Smith needed that one for his ROI.

Shirreffs only has 86 starts all year.

For a guy who has trained a Kentucky Derby winner, trained the winner of the BC Classic and BC Distaff in the same year, and is a positive ROI guy for his entire training career... you'd think people would want to give him horses.

He's never had more than 182 starts a year in his entire training career. By comparison, Pletcher has had at least 1,000 starts seven years in a row, and everyone complains about how he never starts his horses.

Does Shirreffs actually prefer to have a small stable? Is this be design? Even among the horses he gets ... it's mostly homebreds and medium priced auction buys. Zenyatta cost all of $60,000 as a yearling.

It makes no sense why this great trainer is content with this -- and not trying to increase his stock greatly in terms of both quality and volume.

There are good horses to buy in Europe, good horses to buy in South America, good horses to buy at yearling sales, good horses to buy at 2yo sales, there are other trainers who have good horses that you could try to take away.

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Nice to see him win a MSW race with a 2nd-time starter that paid $95.40 at Del Mar.

Mike Smith needed that one for his ROI.

Shirreffs only has 86 starts all year.

For a guy who has trained a Kentucky Derby winner, trained the winner of the BC Classic and BC Distaff in the same year, and is a positive ROI guy for his entire training career... you'd think people would want to give him horses.

He's never had more than 182 starts a year in his entire training career. By comparison, Pletcher has had at least 1,000 starts seven years in a row, and everyone complains about how he never starts his horses.

Does Shirreffs actually prefer to have a small stable? Is this be design? Even among the horses he gets ... it's mostly homebreds and medium priced auction buys. Zenyatta cost all of $60,000 as a yearling.

It makes no sense why this great trainer is content with this -- and not trying to increase his stock greatly in terms of both quality and volume.

There are good horses to buy in Europe, good horses to buy in South America, good horses to buy at yearling sales, good horses to buy at 2yo sales, there are other trainers who have good horses that you could try to take away.

I believe he is very content with the amount he has. He likes his stable to be in one location, right before his eyes..He kind of has the John Ward system of train a lot and run sparingly, but with very good results. We were friends before he ever started training and it's no surprise to me that he's happy just the way things are..

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

I believe he is very content with the amount he has. He likes his stable to be in one location, right before his eyes..He kind of has the John Ward system of train a lot and run sparingly, but with very good results. We were friends before he ever started training and it's no surprise to me that he's happy just the way things are..

I get the sense too that he has a low tolerance for owner hijinks..

[Fearless Leader]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I get the sense too that he has a low tolerance for owner hijinks..

So, are you suggesting that he would not be on board with say, painting a gray horse's tail blue ?

[cmorioles]

I still remember the days with Marshall Nafy and the 505 Farms. He was lethal first time out.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Fearless Leader

So, are you suggesting that he would not be on board with say, painting a gray horse's tail blue ?

that's got to be difficult, weighing the benefits of training a good horse vs having to put up with said horses idiot owner.

He's a terrific horsemen that's trained so many great horses like zenyatta. Anyway I liked that runner and picked it for 2nd. So it was in my top 3 picks. Never mentioned that horse in my picks section but If I would've went to the track would've bet the horse twice to win. So it would've made my day. I just thought that John has done better 2nd time out with horses. Also great works and a key jockey switch to mike smith. So that's a great joc/trainer combo over the years.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

I believe he is very content with the amount he has. He likes his stable to be in one location, right before his eyes..He kind of has the John Ward system of train a lot and run sparingly, but with very good results. We were friends before he ever started training and it's no surprise to me that he's happy just the way things are..

if i were a trainer, i'd want to be hands on...there's no way i'd want a set up like pletcher, where you're more of a manager trying to keep tabs on employees, and no real time to be the trainer. i doubt it's possible that pletcher is the actual trainer of many of those horses under his name.

[10 pnt move up]

If he wanted a bigger stable he would have it, simple as that. He is a vietnam vet that is definitely a quite but take no **** kind of person. I believe his relationship with 505 came to a bitter end with the whole Bertrando incident, I could be wrong. Frankel took him, no problem.

Was that the first sub 45 half for the meet in a 6.5f race? Might have been for any distance, talk about falling apart.

Top 5 horsemen at Del Mar, currently on the grounds that is, if I had a horse if I would feel comfortable that the horses best interest would be at the forefront,

Bill Spwar
Dick Mandella
John Shirrreffs
Ron McAnally

and a guy who has only been here recently, Tom Proctor.

Guys like Baffert, Oneill, he I like them from a betting standpoint, like the fact they run their horses, not always on the level with their owners.

People I would trust the least, Ted West, Mike Mitchell, Barry Abrams

[Round Pen]

No question John is a Very good horsemen I remember meeting him back in the day when 505 Farms were Going strong (they bought Swept Overboard off of us way back then). I have a couple of friends that have taken horses away from him over the last couple of years because he would never run them. It seems Like John Trains more than he runs.