Beyer: Espinoza's ride could have cost Chrome Crown

[Benny]

Beyer agrees with Moss ; CC should have been sent.

http://www.drf.com/news/beyer-espino...e-triple-crown

[Stickhorse]

I'm surprised that Beyer would say that.

I would have guessed he'd be in the camp that Chrome wasn't fast enough and he just ran his race.

More than anything maybe Victor had too much confidence in the horse.

[Danzig]

i'm not sure that chrome should have been sent-there's no way he'd have been left alone to set the pace, so then espinoza would have been questioned for sending.
the only thing i was concerned about was him opting to go four wide all the way around the turn. how much ground was lost doing that?

[Calzone Lord]

It was the textbook Jerry Bailey ride, at Belmont.

He put him in the pocket, got the horse to relax, and gradually worked out his way out for a clear run in the stretch.

When you're in the pocket like that, you're covered up and you're not taking much dirt in the face. The dirt doesn't get up high enough.

Obviously, I agree that he should have tried to make the lead. However, he wasn't exactly pulling his way to the front. He wasn't so sharp after the break. And, had he made the lead, he ran the risk of getting run at in-waves like other horses going for a triple crown have.

It was a trip that a horse who is good enough should handle.

It's not exactly like he took a ton of dirt in his face, like in the California race last year, where he blew the break and got beat:




Obviously, his trip could have been much easier if he made the lead and they let him relax like they did for Commissioner. But, it's really hard to say that the trip beat him. That was sort of the generic, text-book Belmont trip.

[Danzig]

agree, doug. i know moss said 'he doesn't like dirt' but he wasn't far enough back to be pelted with kickback.

he didn't win, and nothing can change it. he and victor did their best, it wasn't enough.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

It was the textbook Jerry Bailey ride, at Belmont.

He put him in the pocket, got the horse to relax, and gradually worked out his way out for a clear run in the stretch.

When you're in the pocket like that, you're covered up and you're not taking much dirt in the face. The dirt doesn't get up high enough.

Obviously, I agree that he should have tried to make the lead. However, he wasn't exactly pulling his way to the front. He wasn't so sharp after the break. And, had he made the lead, he ran the risk of getting run at in-waves like other horses going for a triple crown have.

It was a trip that a horse who is good enough should handle.

It's not exactly like he took a ton of dirt in his face, like in the California race last year, where he blew the break and got beat:




Obviously, his trip could have been much easier if he made the lead and they let him relax like they did for Commissioner. But, it's really hard to say that the trip beat him. That was sort of the generic, text-book Belmont trip.

Very well said, I totally agree. If he was good enough, Espinoza gave him every chance to win with that trip.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Has Violette or Ortiz commented on Samraat's ride? Was the horse off, or did they decide that on that particular day he'd be better off as a deep closer rather than the projected lone speed where he could have controlled the pace?

Easy to say now that CC should have been closer, but realistically, no one knows how the break and subsequent injury (however superficial it may or may not be) affected Espinoza's ability to put the horse in a more opportune position.

It would be refreshing to see DRF focus on the tangibles that affected the outcome rather than inane speculation.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Has Violette or Ortiz commented on Samraat's ride? Was the horse off, or did they decide that on that particular day he'd be better off as a deep closer rather than the projected lone speed where he could have controlled the pace?

Easy to say now that CC should have been closer, but realistically, no one knows how the break and subsequent injury (however superficial it may or may not be) affected Espinoza's ability to put the horse in a more opportune position.

It would be refreshing to see DRF focus on the tangibles that affected the outcome rather than inane speculation.

I was wondering the same thing about Samraat. Shocked to see him so far back.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by golfer

I was wondering the same thing about Samraat. Shocked to see him so far back.

Make that 3 , me too, I was thinking he would be an important early factor and a key to the race. Didn't see Commissioner as a pace factor at all, hand it to Byk for seeing him.

[Mack]

Originally Posted by Benny

Make that 3 , me too, I was thinking he would be an important early factor and a key to the race. Didn't see Commissioner as a pace factor at all, hand it to Byk for seeing him.

And I'd bet Steve didn't expect Commissioner to be up on the pace. Rather he'd be the type of horse that would grind out those 24-25s quarters and pick up the faster pacers at the end.

(and I guess he did grind out those qtrs, he just did it on the front!)

[Mack]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Has Violette or Ortiz commented on Samraat's ride? Was the horse off, or did they decide that on that particular day he'd be better off as a deep closer rather than the projected lone speed where he could have controlled the pace?

The ride on Samraat was incredibly frustrating. He broke incredibly well and then he closed extremely well at the finish. Given how gutty he finishes, I'd have liked to see what he could have done up on that soft pace.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Mack

The ride on Samraat was incredibly frustrating. He broke incredibly well and then he closed extremely well at the finish. Given how gutty he finishes, I'd have liked to see what he could have done up on that soft pace.

It was reminiscent of the ride Jose Ortiz gave speed horse Itsagoodtendollars last winter in a claiming race at Aqueduct. I thought he'd have learned, as I bet on Samraat.

[Indian Charlie]

Isn't it pretty obvious that with that pace on that track that day he should have been in front early?

He never looked good though, which leads me to believe the biggest issue was the foot.

It took a few things to happen for this horse to lose to these, and they did happen.

[-BT-]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Has Violette or Ortiz commented on Samraat's ride? Was the horse off, or did they decide that on that particular day he'd be better off as a deep closer rather than the projected lone speed where he could have controlled the pace?

Easy to say now that CC should have been closer, but realistically, no one knows how the break and subsequent injury (however superficial it may or may not be) affected Espinoza's ability to put the horse in a more opportune position.

It would be refreshing to see DRF focus on the tangibles that affected the outcome rather than inane speculation.

yeah, if anyone should be question rides in that race, people should definitely take a look at Ortiz. No urgency what so ever to get near the lead, makes what i thought was a huge move going into the stretch, gets to the top of the lane and he nose dives the horse to the rail while entering the stretch 6 wide. I'm not saying he was winning, but after a big move why not continue outside

-bt-

[Aly-Sheba]

How many races has Beyer and Moss rode in, compared to Bailey? I will take Bailey's opinion in that spot. The ride was fine, he was tired from the 3 races and got beat less then 2 lengths. I thought he ran great in defeat!!

[Frost King]

If you watch his ride in the 3rd, it was the ride he would have given California Chrome. He was two wide the whole trip around and the horse faded. That could have scared him from doing the same thing with CC.

[richard burch]

he flattened out. whether he was wide, inside, back , front...he still would have done it....too much for him. espinoza did a good job.


what i saw was what appeared to be a very deep track with alot of kick back. horses spinning their hooves.

[Vegaskid]

Originally Posted by richard burch

he flattened out. whether he was wide, inside, back , front...he still would have done it....too much for him. espinoza did a good job.


what i saw was what appeared to be a very deep track with alot of kick back. horses spinning their hooves.

I agree. They made sure to play the track deep.

This horse's problem is breaking from the gate. In this race he got bumped hard from the outside. Its not about making the front for him just getting clean out and position. I believe if he broke out clean its a completely different finish for him.

[Pants II]

Bad luck at the break.

That doesn't happen it's arguably a different outcome.

If he's healthy...good luck to those who doubt him in the fall.

[ajphilly]

Originally Posted by -BT-

yeah, if anyone should be question rides in that race, people should definitely take a look at Ortiz. No urgency what so ever to get near the lead, makes what i thought was a huge move going into the stretch, gets to the top of the lane and he nose dives the horse to the rail while entering the stretch 6 wide. I'm not saying he was winning, but after a big move why not continue outside

-bt-

I figured something had gone wrong with the horse when he wasn't near the front during the race. I was shocked to see that he finished only about 4-5 lengths back of Tonalist. Watching the replay, Ortiz doesn't seem to ask the horse at all while everyone one else goes right by. I agree that he may not have won, but he gave the horse no chance. By far the most questionable ride in the race IMO.